Help with hormones and fat loss!

[dutcholiver]

I need help! I have gone to two different HRT docs, done blood work, and both docs say that all but two of my levels are "normal." I only had a slightly low dhea and test level. (I am 30 yr. old) My problem is that I absolutely can not lose any body fat. I am a trainer and I am maticulous about diet, training, etc. - that is not the problem. I consistently have a low body temperature of approx. 97.4 degrees. The only time I have been able to lose the slightest bit of fat (about .25 lbs in a week) is when I would drop my kcals VERY low for 5 days, 45 min cardio every day, then on the 6th day crank my kcals very high, do no cardio and watch my body temp. make it to the low 98 degree range. This has been going on for years. SO, I got fed up after my last blood work and decided to try and address the problem myself (insert judgement here). I suspected that it was my thyroid, even though my levels measured "fine," and I tried some very low dose armour thyroid (with some dhea to address that issue). This did help make the fat loss easier, but I was still busting my ass for .5 lb per week. I could live with that pace of fat loss, but because I self-diagnosed I stopped just because I dont know if I fixed the orginal problem or not. Help>

ANY ideas? Why would the armour work a little bit even though my blood values were fine. And even if my blood values were slightly off prior to my supplementing with the armour, why would it seem as if my thyroid was completely useless.

[1cc]

Please post your labs with ranges.

[wildfox]

yeah, would be nice to see your full lab info. What's your current body fat %? Have you considered a macro-nutrient-cycling diet that is heavier on the protein and good fats, and only a few meals a week are high-carb-only?

WF

[Vforcer2]

Originally Posted by dutcholiver

I need help! I have gone to two different HRT docs, done blood work, and both docs say that all but two of my levels are "normal." I only had a slightly low dhea and test level. (I am 30 yr. old) My problem is that I absolutely can not lose any body fat. I am a trainer and I am maticulous about diet, training, etc. - that is not the problem. I consistently have a low body temperature of approx. 97.4 degrees. The only time I have been able to lose the slightest bit of fat (about .25 lbs in a week) is when I would drop my kcals VERY low for 5 days, 45 min cardio every day, then on the 6th day crank my kcals very high, do no cardio and watch my body temp. make it to the low 98 degree range. This has been going on for years. SO, I got fed up after my last blood work and decided to try and address the problem myself (insert judgement here). I suspected that it was my thyroid, even though my levels measured "fine," and I tried some very low dose armour thyroid (with some dhea to address that issue). This did help make the fat loss easier, but I was still busting my ass for .5 lb per week. I could live with that pace of fat loss, but because I self-diagnosed I stopped just because I dont know if I fixed the orginal problem or not. Help>

ANY ideas? Why would the armour work a little bit even though my blood values were fine. And even if my blood values were slightly off prior to my supplementing with the armour, why would it seem as if my thyroid was completely useless.

If you do not have labs for FREE T3 and FREE T4, as well as TSH, then not much can be said with regard to your thyroid. We need these to look at your thryoid status. Also Total T, Free T, and Estradiol levels are needed.

You also need to give your diet macros. I for one have to get my calories down to 1500-1700 to loose about 1.25 lbs per week with 3 days of weights (for 45 minutes to 1 hour) and two days of HIT cardio at 25 minutes.

Armour has some T3 hormone in it which will speed up your metabolism, and T4 that converts to T3 in your body. If you do not need Armour and are taking it, then you will shut your natural thryoid production down, and you will likly GAIN weight and feel like crap. It can take months to rebound back to where you were, so be carefull that you don't screw yourself up playing around with hormones.

[Krembles]

Originally Posted by dutcholiver

I need help! I have gone to two different HRT docs, done blood work, and both docs say that all but two of my levels are "normal." I only had a slightly low dhea and test level. (I am 30 yr. old) My problem is that I absolutely can not lose any body fat. I am a trainer and I am maticulous about diet, training, etc. - that is not the problem. I consistently have a low body temperature of approx. 97.4 degrees. The only time I have been able to lose the slightest bit of fat (about .25 lbs in a week) is when I would drop my kcals VERY low for 5 days, 45 min cardio every day, then on the 6th day crank my kcals very high, do no cardio and watch my body temp. make it to the low 98 degree range. This has been going on for years. SO, I got fed up after my last blood work and decided to try and address the problem myself (insert judgement here). I suspected that it was my thyroid, even though my levels measured "fine," and I tried some very low dose armour thyroid (with some dhea to address that issue). This did help make the fat loss easier, but I was still busting my ass for .5 lb per week. I could live with that pace of fat loss, but because I self-diagnosed I stopped just because I dont know if I fixed the orginal problem or not. Help>

ANY ideas? Why would the armour work a little bit even though my blood values were fine. And even if my blood values were slightly off prior to my supplementing with the armour, why would it seem as if my thyroid was completely useless.

If you can't control your self with food. Don't blame hormones at 30 years old.
Big Bones ect. Wire your mouth shut.

[dutcholiver]

Look Guys, like I said it is not my diet! So I dont need to "wire my mouth shut" I have a B.S. in sport science and nutrition with a masters in physiology. Trust me, its NOT diet.

I am 200 lbs.
My Fat % is 11.2% - by 7 site bodyfat calipers
My recent lab results were:

TSH - 1.09 (range .35 - 5.5)
T3 uptake 39.0 (range 20 - 38.5)
T4 8.2 (range 4.4 - 12.5)
Calculated T7 (FTI) 3.2 (range 1.05 - 3.85)
Total Test 300 (range 240 - 800)
Free Test 7.9 (range 7.2 - 23.0)
IGF-1 220 (range 110- 290)
DHEA 260 (range 280 - 640)

[Krembles]

Originally Posted by dutcholiver

Look Guys, like I said it is not my diet! So I dont need to "wire my mouth shut" I have a B.S. in sport science and nutrition with a masters in physiology. Trust me, its NOT diet.

I am 200 lbs.
My Fat % is 11.2% - by 7 site bodyfat calipers
My recent lab results were:

TSH - 1.09 (range .35 - 5.5)
T3 uptake 39.0 (range 20 - 38.5)
T4 8.2 (range 4.4 - 12.5)
Calculated T7 (FTI) 3.2 (range 1.05 - 3.85)
Total Test 300 (range 240 - 800)
Free Test 7.9 (range 7.2 - 23.0)
IGF-1 220 (range 110- 290)
DHEA 260 (range 280 - 640)

Body Fat 11.2% Sorry. You sound like you are in Very Good Shape. I think you should not worry at all unless you are in competition. The Paris Hilton look sucks. I would definately get the Test Level up to 900-1250. Your doctor gave you a low range. With the increase in matabolism you will get defined. Secondly, Growth Hormones will melt the fat like butter on a hot skillet. Just don't over do it. Those 6 pack abbs guys are over doing it. They have inlarged organs that appear to be muscle.

[dutcholiver]

I am trying to address the low test and dhea levels naturally. Not sure what you are referring to reguarding GH. My IGF levels were great and I am not considering GH therapy.

[pmgamer18]

Originally Posted by dutcholiver

Look Guys, like I said it is not my diet! So I dont need to "wire my mouth shut" I have a B.S. in sport science and nutrition with a masters in physiology. Trust me, its NOT diet.

I am 200 lbs.
My Fat % is 11.2% - by 7 site bodyfat calipers
My recent lab results were:

TSH - 1.09 (range .35 - 5.5)
T3 uptake 39.0 (range 20 - 38.5)
T4 8.2 (range 4.4 - 12.5)
Calculated T7 (FTI) 3.2 (range 1.05 - 3.85)
Total Test 300 (range 240 - 800)
Free Test 7.9 (range 7.2 - 23.0)
IGF-1 220 (range 110- 290)
DHEA 260 (range 280 - 640)

I feel you need more testing to see why your T levels are so low normal for a man over 100 yrs. old. I have no room to talk on diet and training just an old man on TRT for over 22 yrs. I do now this some men over do it on there diet and work out. You need to take a close look at why your T levels are so low. I feel this is your problem and you don't want to go on TRT until you figure out why. Go to SWALES aka Dr. John's sit at www.allthingsmale.com and read his TRT: A Recipe for Success the tests you need are in here. Also see about asking your Dr. to work with him over the phone to test you and treat you.

[dutcholiver]

The reason I am not convinced it is a low test issue is that 4 years ago, I had all of my levels tested for the first time and my testosterone levels were much higher in the normal range. (cant remember exact numbers, but were probably double or more)..... I was having the same fat loss problems then.

Anyone else?

[pmgamer18]

Originally Posted by dutcholiver

The reason I am not convinced it is a low test issue is that 4 years ago, I had all of my levels tested for the first time and my testosterone levels were much higher in the normal range. (cant remember exact numbers, but were probably double or more)..... I was having the same fat loss problems then.

Anyone else?

Believe me with levels of T this low you have a big problme and I would not be worried about fat loss I would be worried about bone loss, heart problems, feelings of depression with panic problems and a lot more. Read these links.
http://www.lef.org/protocols/prtcls-...prtcl-130.html
http://www.wellmanclinic.org/Male%20menopause.PDF

[jboldman]

did the weight you lost on the armour thyroid stay off? If so, i see no reason why you could not just cycle this until you arrive at your desired weight. I have seen no evidence that infrequent low dose t3/t4 will cause any lasting suppression. Given your current bf% it would seem that a very little weight loss would take care your goal. You could also try using yohimbe. Frankly i just think that some people have a hell of a time losing weight. As for fixing the original problem, none of these will do that. To do that, i am afraid it is back to the doctors. Talking with swale would be a good place to start.

jb

[Vforcer2]

Originally Posted by dutcholiver

Look Guys, like I said it is not my diet! So I dont need to "wire my mouth shut" I have a B.S. in sport science and nutrition with a masters in physiology. Trust me, its NOT diet.

I am 200 lbs.
My Fat % is 11.2% - by 7 site bodyfat calipers
My recent lab results were:

TSH - 1.09 (range .35 - 5.5)
T3 uptake 39.0 (range 20 - 38.5)
T4 8.2 (range 4.4 - 12.5)
Calculated T7 (FTI) 3.2 (range 1.05 - 3.85)
Total Test 300 (range 240 - 800)
Free Test 7.9 (range 7.2 - 23.0)
IGF-1 220 (range 110- 290)
DHEA 260 (range 280 - 640)

If you assume you know all there is about dieting because your a trainer, then you might want to open your mind a bit. If you don't like what I have to say, then ignore it, but I will have more tack(I promise) than the fellow whom says to "wire your mouth shut".....geez.

I had a trainer that has the same credentials you do, and I had very SLOW weight loss with her. I left her and read up on the subjects of INSULIN RESISTANCE, and decided her regiman of carbs at 40-50% was what was keeping me from loosing the weight, but this was only after some trial and error. She also had me taking in about 2500 calories per day, so my weight loss was SLOW. Fact is nutrition and weight loss technology are ever changing and what you learned in school 6 years ago is already outdated to a certain degree.

I got scientific about it and used a MED GEM to determine exactly what my Basal Metabolic Rate was, and it was 2100 calories per day and I weighed 242 lbs. So, I learned how many calories to cut, and how much I needed to work out. Now I weigh 189 lbs.

When I went to about 30% carbs(low GI), 50% protein, and 20% fat, the weight came off. I carb cycle as well and eat about 9-12 Carlson Fish Oil caps per day. Everyone is different, thus a case is made for metabolic typing.

I have found when I plateau, it is time to stop dieting for a couple of weeks and eat normally. I notice you are upping your calories one day per week. This is just not enough when in a plateau. The metabolism cannot be revved up with one day of high caloric intake.

With regards to your Thyroid, All the numbers you have, with exception to TSH(and it is fine, but that still means nothing), are worthless. You need FREE T3 and FREE T4 for an accurate picture of your thyroid production.

Despite what is being said, taking thyroid meds can cause suppression and eventually with long term use can cause atrophy of your thryoid glands. I followed one guy in a bodybuilding group that had access to free blood tests at a lab he worked at and he was doing very frequent tests and was not back to normal thryoid production (after a short cutting cycle using thryroid hormone) for over 3 months, as a matter of fact, I don't know if he every returned to full production.

Your T levels are at the low end, but that is normal if you are dieting hard and/or not getting enough rest. You can help crank up your T levels by changing your diet to about 40%-50% fat and doing HIT training and taking 90mg per day of Zinc. Your T levels could also be low if you have high E2 (do you consume soy products?).

Your DHEA levels are low, so you could benefit from 50 mg per day of DHEA capsules. This can help strengthen your adrenal gland which also can help get your T level up some since the adrenals are responsible for some T production. You might want to check into doing a cortisol saliva test as it is possible that you suffer from adrenal fatigue, which generally goes hand in hand with thryoid disorders.

If you feel good, have good muscle tone, and do not suffer from poor Libido or ED, then you do NOT want to look at HRT just to obtain sub 10% body fat levels.

Your IGF-1 level is normal and you do not want to mess with taking growth hormone as suggested by someone else, unless you want to screw up your pituitary gland and have to deal with several months of rebound effect and then less than normal production thereafter, not to mention blowing away a load of money.