Men's Health Forum: This is a discussion on Help me please -- Finasteride-induced secondary hypogonadism, low T/LH/FSH, high E within the Anabolic Steroids forums, part of the extensive steroid information at MESO-Rx; Thursday, January 8, 2009
Day 13!
Yesterday afternoon, I had a 1/4 of a cup of small ice coffee which ...
Yesterday afternoon, I had a 1/4 of a cup of small ice coffee which gave me bad sleep. I decided that i wanted some coffee b/c i hadn't drank coffee in almost 2 months. So I bought a cup from dunkin donuts just to see what it takes like again. After stopping propecia, i notice that coffee left me drained of my adrenals and could not get a decent sleep, ever, even if i drank a cup early in the morning. I took 500 iu of hcg in my inner right thigh, vitamin E, and nolvadex at 1am, then i went to bed. It probably took me an hour to sleep and I woke up at 8am with a slight erection (65%). So i decide to put my theory to work and see if I get the same outCUM. hehe. If you've been reading the journal lately, then you know that my semen has been watery every morning. Also, after i talked about time trials yesterday, that i wanted to see how long i can last. I worked up my erection to 85% and kept it going for 18 mins with erection quality fluctuating between 65-80%. After i climaxed, the semen quality was good and there was no water this time, just substance. I think that the longer I'm excited, that gives the body time to build up the necessary fluid for the finally. I'll test out the theory tomorrow about erection during vs semen viscosity.
I don't know whether it is poor sleep or what, but I felt devoid of energy and depressed. Currently, I have a lot of complexes right now and it has been too much to bear. I'm dealing with propecia sides, Hair, Halitosis, Youth complexes, and it affected me today. See I have the pocket size halitosis meter (Tanita Breath Alert - Engadget) on me at all times to check my breath b/c i suffered from Halitosis for 12 years. I think this is the worst affliction that anyone can have other than being disfigured of course, b/c it removes all sociability that you have with anyone. I'm telling you, this fucks me up more than propecia. Having Halitosis, you don't know if you have offensive breath and it is always on the back of your mind. Whenever you are in front of someone, you wonder is your breath strong and is the person keeping a straight face while talking to you. After 12 yrs of dealing with this, you'll develop paranoia and lose yourself, just b/c you don't want to speak and have someone cringe. I saw my doctor about this and he has bad breath too, he told me to keep the mouth moist with lozenges. Whoa, what an appifiny, tic tacs, gum, Listerine pacs, mouthwash never came to my mind. What a dumb fuck have i been. (I'm being sarcastic) Whatever, I have been on a journey trying to correct that issue for a very long time. With the halimeter, it tells you the following: no odor, slight order, mild, and strong odor, will either display 1,2,3,4 dots respectively on the meter. For the first 9 years I flossed and brushed my teeth for 2-3 mins, but my breath was always at a 3-4 dot range. I'm sorry guys, that is socially crippling and this will leave anyone with a complex. I've tried Profresh.com works great, but my breath would continue to get worse as the day went on. On Profresh my breath would flucuate between a 1-4 at given points in the day. I have been measuring my breath for 5 yrs now with this meter and i know a lot about breath measurements throughout the day. I made a lot of breakthroughs in 2008 b/c i figured out what was wrong with me. I was not brushing and scraping correctly, but the explanation gets very complex. First, your mouth is a huge structure, with teeth, tongue, throat, gums, side walls of the cheeks, top of pallet, and saliva, so not understanding these structures led to my bad breath. (Boo hoo, yea cry me a river by Justin Timberlake). I'm a fighter, so i don't give up bitches... Plaque is your worst enemy even if you brush your teeth and floss, scape your tongue, brush the side walls of your cheeks, there is plaque that you cannot get too. I don't care if you been brushing for 5 mins and your teeth is silky smooth, there is plaque somewhere. I conquered bad breath in stages:
1. I was brushing and not rinsing correctly. Think of this analogy, you are going to mop the floor, then clean up the mud off the floor and you go into the next room to use the same bucket of dirty water. The point is that you moving around the bacteria from one area to the other. You may brush the bacteria from your teeth, but it bacteria infested brush water is flowing down onto your tongue and throat. So, my solution was to mix Listerine/water (50/50 ratio) and use it during brushing, flossing, scrapping, i would use the mixture to rinse and spit out.
- Brush your gums, gumline, cheeks, pallate, tongue, teeth, then rinse with fresh mouthwash mixture.
2. you should never floss prior to brushing your teeth b/c you'll be bringing harmful bacteria from your teeth up into your gums. So brush first then floss and rinse with listerine/water combo.
3. Buy a good tongue scrapper, get one from Profresh.com and another scaper from amazon (Amazon.com: Tongue Sweeper® Model A PRO K: Everything Else)
scrap the WHOLE tongue and back near the throat. Then rinse with listerine/water mixture.
I didn't mean for this to be a clinic on brushing but it cured me. There is great detail to this because there are complicated steps and techniques that i'm not going to explain in this journal, maybe for a new oneday journal on some bad breath forum. Why did i go into this tangent... So, i'm at the gym with my buddy working out, and I knew going into it that I had no malodor because the halimeter says 1 dot, but my friend brushes his nose several times, which makes me think that I have bad breath. Because of my complex, I felt depress this morning and afternoon even if my breath wasn't bad. One time, i had my friend blow into the meter and it registered 2 dots meaning slight odor, but I couldn't smell anything from the person's breath, so my breath is currently between 1-2 dots... I'm so fucked up by this and that i don't know if I can ever break out of this breath complex even if my breath is ok. (I"m like that guy named Brooks from the movie Shawshank Redemption, where he was so institutionalized that when he was released from prison after 50yrs or so, he just could not cope with the outside world) I feel that I have been dealing with this for so long that it is apart of me now. I have to rehab myself, so I can feel confident again and live a normal life in the outside world unlike Brooks. The funny thing is, I was popular in college even tho i had horrendous breath, now, I have (1-2 dot) breath but lack all sense of sociability. Well i'm gonna have to pull an Angela Bassett in the movie - How Stella Got Her Groove Back, and oneday will get his grove back...hahaha
Back to semen quality, I came back from the gym feeling depressed and decided that maybe a downloaded youporn video will bring up my spirits. I watched this video of some milf action and once I saw The Side Dish position day 25 on the link (How to do 28 kama sutra positions), that i just exploded. It only took 5 mins but if i hadn't seen that provocative position then I could have gone longer. Erection quality was much better at 85% throughout the 5 mins, but semen quality was watery. Given my theory about semen viscosity, I think if i went longer then my semen would have been thicker.
I gonna buckle down and train myself to get better sleep. I want to get better from this and not have a propecia complex for the rest of my young life. I feel like I'm going through a midlife crisis at 29, when 29 should be the new 20. I'm too young for this shit,just got to meditate and stay fucking calm, ahummm, ahummm, ... no,no, it is woosaaaahhh, woosaaaahhh, woosaaaahhh from Bad Boys 2. That's better and i feel calm now.
By the way, my balls were very firm this morning and in good shape. I'll be just taking vitamin E and Nolvadex tonight. wish me luck. oneday
Doctor on Monday, gave me a slip for some blood test for Free and Total Testosterone, FSH and LH, I think i should get Estradiol tested b/c nolvadex increases this hormone, Do u guys think i should get my liver enzymes tested, or any additional blood tests?
your brutha from another mutha, oneday.
You will be unable to obtain accurate estrogen reading while taking nolva. Maybe someone with more knowledge can further elaborate.
you seemed to have many mental and physical issues before you took any fina. you sure its the propecia thats caused all of this?
It is just some self esteem issues that have come about from physical issues. As for the propecia side effects, it robs a man of his livelihood and to have a normal relationships with a woman. Just imagine that you lose all ability to have erections coupled with drug induced anxiety for 1.5 years, then will ppl not have emotional issues too??? There is a level of vanity in having great hair, great body, great intellect, or great in bed , if any of the aforementioned was taken from us then we'll definitely feel depressed.
I'm sure that a monk can live contently on a mountain-top with other bald headed man, so there is no need for being great in bed, have great hair, or a great body. But I'm no monk and i need at least my manhood to be happy. If you can live like a monk, then you are the wiser man and i bow to you.
Re: Help me please -- Finasteride-induced secondary hypogonadism, low T/LH/FSH, high
hey guys, don't be so gloomy, and always consider foods and vitamins as being able to help you.
I was on drugs and stuff (NOT FIN, but random protein shakes/muscle enhancing crap I'd just guzzle down at a friend's/marijuana/heavy alcohol/who knows what even) back in ... 2003-2004? and something happened, very similar. I'll go get my labs and see if they match up.
Anyway, I got the sexual function back after trying crazy diets, hardcore adherence, for long periods of time. INCLUDING heavy usage of SOY PROTEIN.
Then my thyroid just went and started dying. you beat one thing and lose another!
I'm quite a bit better now, it's not exactly perfect, but it's an interesting journey for sure.
Day 14 on PCT and 42 days left... It is agonizing waiting for the results to appear. Sure there have been improvements, but it is taking forever. My balls are normal now and won't grow anymore. I have more frequent nocturnal and morning erections everyday surpassing what i was getting pre-PCT. Emotions fluctuates from time to time, but I am really happy while on PCT. I hope that if I restore my hormones back that I'll get thicker hair. It could be wishful thinking tho. I mentioned it in the past about the hair i had, but didn't elaborate. (here's the back story) Well, i remember how propecia became the drug of choice for me (It is like, when you ask ppl where were they when JFK was assassinated, or where were they on 9/11, when airplanes crashed into the Twin Towers) It all started with a CSI episode, where the agents are looking for the woman's killer. All they had were some hair follicles and when they held an ultraviolet light to the hair, it fluoresced. so, an agent brings in a doctor (suspect) into a room and the agents goes into a 5 min soliloquy and ask a rhetorical question, does he know anything about male pattern baldness and shit like that, Agent says, well to get the maximum hair growth, you NEED MINOXIDIL AND PROPECIA. Then the officer explains that minoxidil can be washed away, but finasteride will become apart of the hair follicle, so it will fluoresce under ultraviolet light. Guess what, the agent was holding a ultraviolet light and waved over the suspects hair, thus discovering that the doctor was the killer. The suspect breaks down and confesses to the crime. I eventually thought to myself, "hmmm, maximum hair growth???" and i was currently trying rogaine (it never worked for me) then thought that Rogaine works from the outside in, but if I took Propecia, that it would work from the inside thus being more effective. I decided to take propecia b/c it was mentioned in that show, and if i had never watched that episode than i would have never taken FIN. FUCK THAT SHOW, I haven't watched it since. hahaha. Like Big Softie, I took propecia and it made my hair worst, and I don't have the typical male pattern baldness. None of my family members have male pattern baldness, just thinning hair at age 55 yrs, so i really fucked up. I took propecia, then a month later the hair on the side of my head was really thin and I thought that I needed to give my body time to adjust. What a dumb, dumb I was. I can't look back on the past because I will be stuck there forever.. I'm moving on and PCT better work. If it fails then I'll go with the *clomid*, nolvadex, and hcg.
I slept really good last night and had a total of 4 awakenings, 3 toss and turns, and 1 where i woke up at 4:35am started thinking about a girl that i just met. By the way, she has been busy lately and she's going to call me tomorrow. I thought about her for a minute and went back to sleep. I woke up at 8:30am with a decent erection 65% and played with the shaft a little to see if it would remain stiff. I was able to keep it going for 15 mins, then decided to take it for a joy ride. hehe. After 3 mins, joy ride was over just like the amusement park... you never get your money's worth. The ejaculate was viscous, probably because there was 15 mins of foreplay which gave the body enough time to gather the fluids together, or it is b/c i saw a very hot chick getting her pussy wrecked and you could tell that she genuinely enjoyed it.
Starting next week, I'm going to workout 2 hours 3 times a week to see if I can get more gains in Testosterone. Tonight, I will be taking vitamin e, nolvadex, and 300 iu hcg. I've reconsidered that 500iu is too much for me right now and 300 iu hcg is the best way to go to prevent desensitization.
Hey 3pm, i checked out haporn.com and that is laced with commercials... sorry brotha, i'm sticking with youporn. oneday.
Day 15th of PCT, today was like any other morning and that same goes for nocturnal erections. My penile skin is looking supple, that is right, I said, "SUUUU-PLE," and it hasn't looked this healthy in 2 yrs. With all things going the same, my personal life is moving on the up and up. I'd talked to the girl that I met and she seems very sweet. We chatted for a little bit and told me if i wasn't busy tomorrow to give her a call. Definitely wish me luck.
I woke up really early for work and so there wasn't time to take the equipment for a joy ride, no reach around, or the stranger (using the left hand)... haha you sucka... I didn't check my ejaculate or my balls b/c there was no time this morning. So far so good and I'm progressing steadily. This stuff takes time and just gotta be patient. I've looked over several forum entries on various sites and know that people see the libido explosion when they start tapering off of nolvadex. I'm taking 20mg of nolva a night and roughly 30 days left on this regiment, then i'll start tapering off. I'm really disappointed about the side effect of the puffy eyes and bought some girly products to reduce eye puffiness. Yea, you macho fellas will say what a puss, but I can't be looking old when I go on a date.
Next week, I'm gonna get my blood tested to see if I have plenty of Testosterone in my system and cut out the HCG. I hope I have good news to tell you guys about my testosterone levels.
I still have to post my prior lab results and fill out my member story. I wanted to convey some information that van-man conveyed to me and post information about subcutaneous injections. Aight, i'm out. oneday.
Re: Help me please -- Finasteride-induced secondary hypogonadism, low T/LH/FSH, high
Hey, oneday, I'm in the same boat as you. Just wanted to say great job on the journal and keep fighting. I've had these issues for a long time, and I haven't nor will I give up. With so many of us suffering, sooner or later someone will find the answer for all of us.
Don't let anyone tell you this is permanent, obviously it may not effect all of us the same, but some with as serious conditions as us have recovered. I've seen you also use propeciahelp, so I'm sure you know that.
WOW, It is day 16 on pct and things have been going well.
I noticed that there was a change when i was sleeping. Last night, I woke up in a night sweat, either i was never in deep sleep long enough to develop a night sweat, or that the body has changed and i sweat more during the night. I believe that it is actually deep sleep and in the past, a bad dream would have cause me to wake up. Last night, I slept great and had a lot of dreams, tons and tons of dreams. Too many to explain.
Last night, I took melatonin 300mg @ 8:30pm followed by vitamin E 1000IU and nolvadex 20mg @ 9:30pm. I had about 8.5 hours of sleep and i'm still sleepy which is a good thing. My problem after propecia was that i felt tired yet never drowsy, and now it got better last December (pre-PCT) and today it has reached a new pinnacle under PCT. It could be that either estrogen, or testosterone, or dht that has a function in sleep.
During my sleep, I was erected all night b/c I would have sporadic awakenings (5-10secs) probably 5 in total and I could sense that it was erected without touching it. I mentioned in the past that I was able to sense my erections, but this time it was stronger. However, I don't want to mislead anyone and I have not gotten any rod-like erections of 95-100% and I'll start shooting fireworks when that happens. I got rod-like erections when I was on Big Softie's stack (Sustain-Alpha, ZMK, MVP-365, toco-8, Endo-Amp, Reset A.D), but once I had stop using the stack then things went down hill. Even tho, I had lost some gains, however it was a huge improvement over penis numbness, low libido, ED, and erectile sustainability. For those who want to try the stack, then you should go for it.
Like many other ppl, we went with the non invasive approach and sought out supplements to restore what we had lost, in hind sight, you have to fight fire with fire. Yea, this protocol is more extreme and risky than the supplement approach, but I think if you're are on the right PCT then you'll get long term results. Why is this PCT risky??? Well, you need to get syringes and buy the drugs off the internet that are required for the PCT. Then, there's a question of quality b/c anything you buy off the internet is subjected to many assumptions. You have to assume that the drugs are manufactured to a high standard and the dosage that is listed is what you are getting. Well, most ppl are afraid that they are getting short changed when they receive 10mg and it is suppose to be 20mg, but what happens if it is the opposite and you are getting 500mg when it is suppose to be 20mg. So your job is to try and get your doctor to prescribe this stuff to you, or ask senior members in the forum who can vouch for the supplier.
The reason why I chose the username oneday is because I'm very hopeful and optimistic that one day I'll be cured. After reading many recoveries threads, I zeroed in on the ones that failed, along with looking at the ones that originally failed but persevered and was able to recover after 2 yrs. These days, i just try to focus on the protocol that I'm on and plan B, just in case I do fail, but that is still far down the road.
Please continue to wish me luck and lets be hopefully together, oneday.
Sorry man, I totally hijacked your thread, but if it wasn't for your original post on meso, then i wouldn't have not consider detailing my recover in this forum. Since, you and other ppl who had propecia side effects had posted to this thread, I thought it would be foolish for me to start the same thread somewhere else.
day 13 
, if any of the aforementioned was taken from us then we'll definitely feel depressed. 
you beat one thing and lose another!
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