help with libido problem

[marker]

I am 36 and have never used steroids.About 1yr+ ago I noted that my libibo did not feel normal.It may have reduced gradually for a few months prior to being able to really notice it. Anyhow, not knowing what was wrong I ordered a general CBC/urinalysis.[May-05] All readings were normal w. testosterone levels of 602.Since all seemed O.K. , I thought things would gradually return to normal. I ate a little better, added some supplements,and worked out more regularly.

Although I would have days I thought I was improving,[slight libido increase] 90%+ of the time libido was abnormally low, and would revert back after a few days.

After much self-research , I had a more specialised blood test, w. these results.[january 06]

total test. - 765 ng/dL ref.[241-827]
free.test. - 17.7 pg/mL [8.7-25.1]
DHT - 44ng/dL [30-85]
DHEA - 681ng/dL [146-850]
estrogens, - 250pg/mL [40-115]
total

As you can see,everything looks O.K., except for highly elevated estrogen. In a way I was relieved as I now had a tangible source of my problem. For the next few months I tried adding different anti-estrogens[2 cycles 6-oxo, DIM, zinc, calcium d-glutarate, flax seed] with no discernable difference. I was going to retest levels, but figured there was no difference. So I went first to a urologist, who referred me to a endocrinologist.

I showed the endocrinologist my test. He did a general physical and seemed to agree the estrogen could be the source of my problem. He sent me for another blood test w. the following results.[june-06]

total test.- 714 ng/dL [241-827]
TSH - 2.29mIU/L [0.4-5.5]
prolactin - 6.3 ng/mL [2.0-18]
FSH - 8.5mIU/mL [1.6-8.0]
LH -9.2mIU/mL [1.5-9.3]
estrogen, -116pg/mL [<130]
total
estradiol -<32pg/mL [0-54]

As you can see, estrogen had dropped to within range[although the 2 labs have different ranges?]and FSH is about 10% high.

Now on the morning of my test I noticed my libido was at a unusually hi[for me] and hoped I didnt pick the 1-4 days a month when there is spike.[not knowing if it would translate to estrogen levels] On a 1-10 scale my baseline libido is 1-2, with a few days of a 3-4 high. This morning was a 4.5, but it had faded back by afternoon.

The doctor felt the elevated FSH was the problem, and wanted to start me on injectable teastoterone. I hesitated and asked to repeat the test. He agreed and now I go back in 2 weeks. A lot hinges on the new test results. I may even get a 2nd retest before I go back.

I was hoping elevated estrogen was the culprit, and an aromatase inhibitor would help.Now Im uncertain again.I cant blame the doctor for not prescribing an A.I. with the latest readings.

1] Can elevated FSH cause lowered libido? Would injectable testosterone help,if so?

2]Is injectable test. really recommended with 3 separate test. readings of 602, 765, and 714. At those levels, is it asking for even more trouble?

3]Does elevated estrogen sound like the potential problem, and can it fluctuate that much?Could periods of heightened libido correspond w. reduced levels at that moment?

3]Any advice,input, or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

To give you an idea of my libido, I have been inactive since January-05 and on a purely physical level do not even care. I have to push myself to even masturbate. I could even go without that, but do every 1-2 weeks to try to keep some activity, and avoid any shutdown. My ejaculatory volume is still good[atleast 1/2 tbl.spn.] I still get overnite erections-probably 50-60% of nights that Im aware of. Even with erections, there is minimal urge to ejaculate. The sensitivity of the genital region is low.

thank you for any input at all.

[pmgamer18]

I feel it is your Estradiol and the test your Dr. did was for women. You need a test like this that goes down to 10.
http://www.labcorp.com/datasets/labc...o/sr012000.htm
Get this done then if you find your Estradlol is over 30 this could be why.

[hackskii]

Id bet money it is estrogen.
If estrogen is too high or too low this will kill libido.

This guy is the guy to talk to about estrogen: pmgamer18
If you look at some of his posts (great posts), you will see where he likes to get his ranges.
I think he takes adex then when the morning wood stops he stops the adex till he gets the morning wood back then keeps it there.

There are a bunch of places on the net that sell liquid adex and they even have a measuring syrenge that snaps on top of the bottle, making measuring exact.
PM him with the link here and I guarantee he can help you.

I do think it is estrogen and not FSH.

That is some high test levels there you lucky guy.

[Matt Muscle]

With such a good natural level of Testosterone, why would he want to make you take it?..to lower FSH? If so that will just create another whole set of problems.
I certainly dont think taking Testosterone is your answer.
Your estrogen could be related to the problem.

Libido is connected to so many things, perhaps Marianco might be able to give you some more insight.

[pmgamer18]

Originally Posted by Matt Muscle

With such a good natural level of Testosterone, why would he want to make you take it?..to lower FSH? If so that will just create another whole set of problems.
I certainly dont think taking Testosterone is your answer.
Your estrogen could be related to the problem.

Libido is connected to so many things, perhaps Marianco might be able to give you some more insight.

His FSH is a lab error hell I would think this Dr. is nuts if you get your Estradiol checked it should be between 10 to 30 some men do good at 40 but most do dam good at 20 I have been as low as 15. And I found at 15 my orgasms were faster. Yet I am 62 so for me this is a blessing. If you go on TRT or take T meds it will shut down your testis and you don't have any guarantee they will start back up when you stop the T meds. Here is a link to Arimidex and T levels.
http://www.medibolics.com/ArimidexBo...stosterone.htm
I hope you don't eat a lot of soy or drink soy milk doing this will kill your sex life with high fake E's.

[pcgizzmo]

I would not take T shots. Taking those you will just have to keep doing it and your levels look really good as far at T. Like others have said it is probably your estrogen. Just be sure you don't have anything else going on that can kill libido like depression. Being even slightly depressed can put a damper on your libido and you would not even really realize it. I am assuming you are also still attracted to your partner as well.


Paul

[Normandy]

Any idea as to what caused your estrogen levels to rise to 250 pg/mL a year or so ago? Once u get that E2 properly tested, and then treat ur estrogen problem, it would also be good to figure out what caused the high estrogens in the first place to avoid this from hapenning again.

Were u on any weird supplements or dietary habits?





-- Normandy

[marianco]

Originally Posted by marker

I am 36 and have never used steroids.About 1yr+ ago I noted that my libibo did not feel normal. ... Although I would have days I thought I was improving,[slight libido increase] 90%+ of the time libido was abnormally low, and would revert back after a few days.

[january 06]
total test. - 765 ng/dL ref.[241-827]
free.test. - 17.7 pg/mL [8.7-25.1]
DHT - 44ng/dL [30-85]
DHEA - 681ng/dL [146-850]
estrogens, - 250pg/mL [40-115]
total

[june-06]
total test.- 714 ng/dL [241-827]
TSH - 2.29mIU/L [0.4-5.5]
prolactin - 6.3 ng/mL [2.0-18]
FSH - 8.5mIU/mL [1.6-8.0]
LH -9.2mIU/mL [1.5-9.3]
total estrogen -116pg/mL [<130]
estradiol -<32pg/mL [0-54]

The doctor felt the elevated FSH was the problem, and wanted to start me on injectable teastoterone.

To give you an idea of my libido, I have been inactive since January-05 and on a purely physical level do not even care. I have to push myself to even masturbate. I could even go without that, but do every 1-2 weeks to try to keep some activity, and avoid any shutdown. I still get overnite erections-probably 50-60% of nights that Im aware of. Even with erections, there is minimal urge to ejaculate. The sensitivity of the genital region is low.

Having morning erections is a good sign. When total testosterone level is good, I would look at other causes for lowered libido (a brain function).

Adding more testosterone by injection, long-term, seems unusual a solution. Depo-testosterone tends to get stored in fat cells, increasing the production of estrogens. If high estrogen activity is the problem, this may worsen the problem. Short-term use may be useful to check the patency of negative feedback to the hypothalamus-pituitary.

Whether or not estrogen is a problem is not clear since the estradiol level is not clear - estradiol being usually the most potent of the naturally occurring estrogens. Either a low estradiol or a high estradiol may lead to low libido. The current estradiol level (<32 pg/ml) may indicate that estradiol is too low (though having an accurate value would be helpful). Thus taking an anti-estrogen would be expected to have no effect or worsen the problem of low libido. Taking an aromatase-inhibitor may lower estradiol and estrone, but in some, it may also lead to a higher total estrogen level - as other forms of estrogen are made.

More data appears needed - e.g. Free T3, Free T4 (TSH is not enough), progesterone, cortisol (AM and PM), DHEA-s (not DHEA which varies rapidly), comprehensive metabolic panel with a fasting glucose, insulin level, a sensitive estradiol level which is accurate (not a vague <32 pg/ml), neurotransmitters tests, etc. More history is also needed - e.g. height, weight, body fat, blood pressure, other health problems besides libido, energy level, level of physical activity, appetite, diet, visual changes, sleep quality, mood, stress level, medications and supplements, etc. There are numerous variables that determine libido.

[Normandy]

Im going to have a living will written up that stipulates if they ever find me in a corner blabbering incoherently or in any other way mentally comprised, for them to ship me to California to be seen ONLY by Marianco. I tell you, in all my adult life, I have never seen a psychiatrist do anything other than assume someone has a neurotransmitter problem and call it depression. You have no libido? You have depression. Here, have some prozac. You have anxiety? Here's an anxiolitic for the rest of ur life. It's as if Marianco doesn't feel his profession is threatenend by admiting that some things need to be considered other than neurotransmitters.

Thanks Marianco, for being a shrink somewhere in America that is open minded and intellectually curious. It means a lot.



-- Normandy

[marker]

thanks for all the input guys.

Right now my short term plan is to retest and return to see what this doctor has to say.He only called for LH/FSH , total test. and total est. this time.

I'll order my own test with the specifics recommended by Marianco.

The odd thing is outside of low libido I feel fine.My stregnth and fitness levels are as good as ever.I drink only occasionally and lightly at that,and dont take any drugs.Im not at all overweight or depressed.

pmgamer18; If you see 10-30 as ideal for estradiol levels,what do you consider ideal for total estrogen?

Marianco; The dr's test did have comp. metabolic profile with fasting glucose [result-81/range-65-99mg/dL] and the DHEA was DHEA-s.And he did a urinalysis on the initial visit-not sure exactly for what. My blood pressure is fine,and Ive checked it multiple times.

I do remember the dr. saying on the testosterone injections he only wants me on a small and/or short-term amount.He said something about it only comes available in 10 doses, but he wants me to take only 2 doses.

thanks again and any further input is appreciated.