How much TMG to take with DIM?

[eeso]

If I take 100mg of DIM per day, how much TMG should I take per day? 100mg? 200mg? etc...whats the ratio?

I've done a lot of searching but all it says is "take tmg with your dim". I like to be exact

thanks

[magic8989]

I take 120mg DIm with 500mg of TMG. I am not sure of any specific ratio though.

[cpeil2]

Originally Posted by eeso

If I take 100mg of DIM per day, how much TMG should I take per day? 100mg? 200mg? etc...whats the ratio?

I've done a lot of searching but all it says is "take tmg with your dim". I like to be exact

thanks

You would have to search SWALE's old posts to be certain, but I think he used to recommend 750 mg.

[Naturdoc]

Although TMG has lots of good uses, I've never figured out how this rumor got started that is is essential to take with DIM. I'd like to see the biochemical reasoning because as far as I know there is none.

[pmgamer18]

Here are some links on this.
http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/413411-post13.html
With a cut & paste.

That is a bombshell of a study, jb. I had not seen it before.

Please refer to the attached chart.

The CYP1A1 enzyme produces the wonderfully beneficial 2-hydroxyestrone metabolite. Therefore increasing its activity is a very good thing.

The CYP1B1 enzyme makes 4-hydroxyestrone, which, like 16-alpha-hydroxyestrone, is genotoxic, mutagenic and procarcinogenic. However, 4-OHE is inhibited with DMG. A better choice might be TMG, which becomes DMG after it donates a methyl group, and that event has various and sundary health benefits of its own. TMG must be taken at about twice the amount of DMG for its effects on estrogen management.

I have never heard anyone say this before, but perhaps we should not ever take DIM without TMG/DMG also, lest we increase 4-OHE levels. I will be lecturing on this very topic before the Royal College of Physicians in a few weeks, so maybe I have something new to share with them. Thank you for making me think about this topic today.

Calcium D-glucarate also inhibits 4-OHE. AAL Laboratories says folic acid will as well.

My understanding is that DIM improves the healthful 2-hydroxyestrone to nasty 16-alpha-hydroxyestrone ratio.

Here is the text from a slide in the lecture I give before the A4M:

To increase 2-OHE/16-aOHE:

Phytoestrogens
High protein, low fat diet
Reduce Omega-6 and AA generators
Add Omega-3’s
Add flaxseed
Di-indolemethane--DIM (300mg QD)
Indole-3-carbinol (I-3-C)
Inhibit aromatase activity

I have heard that DIM inhibits the CYP3A4 enzyme, which produces 16-aOHE, and that is also why 2-OHE/16-aOHE ratio goes up, but I am not sure about this. Perhaps someone else can come up with something on it.

As far as DIM causing an overall increase in total estrogens, I have heard the opposite. Dr. Michael Zeligs has written several articles on it, and so I have always considered DIM to have CYP19 (aromatase)-inhibiting properties. Maybe this is wrong, though.

Let's continue to dig in on this subject. At the end of my "A Primer on Estrogen Management in the Adult Male Patient" lecture, I close by calling this topic the "new frontier in TRT medicine". I truly believe it is that important.
Attached Images Emetabolites.jpg (25.0 KB, 52 views)

In this link Dr. John takes about it.
SWALE - DIM, TMG and Estrogens
A cut & paste.

have seen several studies which showed that while DIM improves the 2-OHE/16-a-OHE ratio, it also increases the bad 4-OHE. TMG, or its child DMG (although TMG is much better because it has already donated a valuable methyl group by the time it becomes DMG) will help flush the 4-OHE downstream.

Taking TMG/DMG is important on its own, even in absence of DIM supplementation. But I would not take DIM without it.

Why there would be controversy about this escapes me.

[eeso]

Ok well I ordered some of the NOW brand TMG which is 1000mg per pill, I'll take one a day with a 100mg DIM pill.

[HeadDoc]

these are theoretical values for DIM and TMG. However, it could be argued that their absolute values are variable and subject to testing. For the DIM, you could use the estrogen values. For TMG, you could measure homocysteine levels and dose accordingly.