Huge nose dive....help

[brownb01]

Here is my situation. I'll give the short version.

Currently...
I am taking 100mg of T twice a week. I take my injections on Tue and Fri.
I take 250UI of HCG the day before the T injections
I take 1/4 of one armidex pill three times a week (normally)

On a scale of 1-10 I have felt like an 8.5 for the past several months.

A few weeks ago I upped my armidex to half a pill three times a week. I did this because morning wood was a lil weak, my back was breaking out badly, and I was emotional. I seemed to feel better, and my back cleared up quickly. I did the half a pill three times a week for about two weeks.

Also during this time, I have noticed that I wake up in middle of the night with my jaw clenched, and I clench it all during the day. Also seemed to have a lot anxiety. So...I thought to myself, that maybe my T levels are too high. So last Friday I took only 80mg. Saturday I took a huge turn downwards and have been very depressed. I have to struggle to do anything. I can't think clearly, and there seems to be tension over my entire body and mind.

My doc is pretty good about getting me right away...so I went to the Doc Monday afternoon, and explained my situation. Of course she ordered some blood work, and I had that drawn Tue morning before my injection. She subscribed 300mg of wellbutrin. Also..my blood pressure was high, and subscribed metoprolol for that. She suggested that the anxiety I have been feeling might be hypertension. She told me to start monitoring my blood pressure, and not to take the metoprolol until I have monitored my BP for at least 3 days. We went with the wellbutrin because I have used it the past...and it seemed to help with depression. I also have used effexor in the past, and I didn't have good results with this, and the sexual sides were bad...so we stayed away from an SSRI.

Also...last week I took an adderall. Felt absolutely awesome the day I took this.

Also...as some more background, my gf and I have been having issues for a lil over a month. Up until this past Saturday I was really OK with everything. I wasn't upset that we were possibly breaking up...even though she was. I was really fine. I was going on with my life without any issues. Saturday and since then..this relationship thing has become a huge issue for me, and now the thought of it makes me terribly upset. Before I felt like I would be better off without the relationship, and now I feel like I can go on without it.

So...now I am really confused. Could lowering my T by 20mg have this large of affect on me? Something defiantly changed Saturday. Could taking the adderall have some adverse affect on something? On a scale of 1-10, I now feel like a 2. last week at this time...I was going great! I started the wellbutrin Monday, and haven't noticed anything different...other than a crappy nights sleep. My blood pressure has still been elevated.

I went back to 100mg T injection this week, and took the armidex back to the 1/4 pill instead of the half. Morning wood has been good...and spontaneous wood has actually been a lot better.

I go back to the dr in two weeks to go over the blood work. I should be able to get a copy of the blood before then. I hope to have that by the end of the week, or Monday.

[brownb01]

Also...I wanted to add that my HCG is pretty old. My phar has not been able to get the novarel, so I have been using the same vial for quite some time. My Phar just today, got in another brand of HCG (PREGNYL) and I will start that new vial in the morning.

[Bill-NJ]

Originally Posted by brownb01

Also...I wanted to add that my HCG is pretty old. My phar has not been able to get the novarel, so I have been using the same vial for quite some time. My Phar just today, got in another brand of HCG (PREGNYL) and I will start that new vial in the morning.

I would guess your HCG is no longer good and that change alone could make all the difference. How long have you been using old HCG? Does this fall in line with how you have been feeling?

[brownb01]

Originally Posted by Bill-NJ

I would guess your HCG is no longer good and that change alone could make all the difference. How long have you been using old HCG? Does this fall in line with how you have been feeling?

I've been using it for quite awhile...probably 60 days plus. I just started feeling horrible Saturday. Maybe the HCG just went bad...?

[pmgamer18]

Stop doing 100mgs 2x's a week this is way to much and if anyone needs a higher level of Testosterone It's me. Here is what you did your upping your Arimidex lowering your Testosterone driving your estradiol into the ground stop taking the arimidex you can't get back up if you keep taking it. You will be months trying to get back up. Just stop the Arimidex go back down to 80mgs of T 2x's a week and wait for some strong night time and morning wood this means our back up then go back on it doing .25 mgs every 3 days if your wood is falling off again it's your going to low not to high. And you can break out on your back from low E2.

[Bill-NJ]

Originally Posted by brownb01

I've been using it for quite awhile...probably 60 days plus. I just started feeling horrible Saturday. Maybe the HCG just went bad...?

60 days? thats 30 better than any HCG would last, I usually see a drop after 20 days in fridge I would toss out unused at 30 days if keeping that long perhaps others could chime in as my hcg schedule I use a vial in 20 days

[pmgamer18]

Originally Posted by Bill-NJ

60 days? thats 30 better than any HCG would last, I usually see a drop after 20 days in fridge I would toss out unused at 30 days if keeping that long perhaps others could chime in as my hcg schedule I use a vial in 20 days

Yep I am with you on this one Bill I use noveral and it's only good for me for 3 weeks then I toss it. Now other brans may last longer you need to read the box.

[brownb01]

OK, thanks for the input so far.

I pick up the new HCG today...so I'll ask about the length of time to keep it.

Low estradiol...that makes sense. My last 1/4 of armidex was Tue (yesterday) if I take my HCG (250UI) first thing in the morning, and then my T shot on Friday...any chance I will be feeling better soon? Or since the HCG I have been taking isn't any good...should I take my new batch asap? Should I keep it at 250UI?

This hit my like a freight train. I was feeling so good last week. It really sucks to sink so fast. It's like a switch was flipped. I assume now, that my estradiol feel below optimal level, and I started feeling bad as soon as it did. I have been using my morning wood as a guage on the armidex. Morning wood hasn't fallen off any...so I figured I was still in range, and the acne on my back was clearing up nicely...so I assumed all was good. I thought I would go back to 1/4 pill as soon as the morning wood started to decrease.

I feel better just having an idea of what's going on...

[BigAk]

it's all guess work... TRT is a big hassle...

[Bill-NJ]

Originally Posted by BigAk

it's all guess work... TRT is a big hassle...

Its not all guess work its more working with people who understand how everything works I am 1 year into my TRT and feeling great . If feeling like this is a hassle I want to be hassled everyday I am sorry you feel trt is a hassle but if you feel that way why do you continue to post on a message board the is 90% trt?

[brownb01]

so....Low estradiol can or could sink me into depression? man...all I want to do is cry.

[Bill-NJ]

Originally Posted by brownb01

so....Low estradiol can or could sink me into depression? man...all I want to do is cry.

yes low and high seem to cause all sorts of problems

[jcast]

Originally Posted by brownb01

so....Low estradiol can or could sink me into depression? man...all I want to do is cry.

I'm no expert in HRT bro, but if you are or have been married you now are experiencing the reason why the Mrs goes through those wicked mood swings like clockwork. If you're not married, be prepared and/or forewarned

[brownb01]

Originally Posted by jcast

I'm no expert in HRT bro, but if you are or have been married you now are experiencing the reason why the Mrs goes through those wicked mood swings like clockwork. If you're not married, be prepared and/or forewarned

lol...yeah, good point. yes, I've been married...and divorced.

[JanSz]

Originally Posted by brownb01

Here is my situation. I'll give the short version.

Currently...
I am taking 100mg of T twice a week. I take my injections on Tue and Fri.
I take 250UI of HCG the day before the T injections
I take 1/4 of one armidex pill three times a week (normally)

On a scale of 1-10 I have felt like an 8.5 for the past several months.

A few weeks ago I upped my armidex to half a pill three times a week. I did this because morning wood was a lil weak, my back was breaking out badly, and I was emotional. I seemed to feel better, and my back cleared up quickly. I did the half a pill three times a week for about two weeks.

Also during this time, I have noticed that I wake up in middle of the night with my jaw clenched, and I clench it all during the day. Also seemed to have a lot anxiety. So...I thought to myself, that maybe my T levels are too high. So last Friday I took only 80mg. Saturday I took a huge turn downwards and have been very depressed. I have to struggle to do anything. I can't think clearly, and there seems to be tension over my entire body and mind.

My doc is pretty good about getting me right away...so I went to the Doc Monday afternoon, and explained my situation. Of course she ordered some blood work, and I had that drawn Tue morning before my injection. She subscribed 300mg of wellbutrin. Also..my blood pressure was high, and subscribed metoprolol for that. She suggested that the anxiety I have been feeling might be hypertension. She told me to start monitoring my blood pressure, and not to take the metoprolol until I have monitored my BP for at least 3 days. We went with the wellbutrin because I have used it the past...and it seemed to help with depression. I also have used effexor in the past, and I didn't have good results with this, and the sexual sides were bad...so we stayed away from an SSRI.

Also...last week I took an adderall. Felt absolutely awesome the day I took this.

Also...as some more background, my gf and I have been having issues for a lil over a month. Up until this past Saturday I was really OK with everything. I wasn't upset that we were possibly breaking up...even though she was. I was really fine. I was going on with my life without any issues. Saturday and since then..this relationship thing has become a huge issue for me, and now the thought of it makes me terribly upset. Before I felt like I would be better off without the relationship, and now I feel like I can go on without it.

So...now I am really confused. Could lowering my T by 20mg have this large of affect on me? Something defiantly changed Saturday. Could taking the adderall have some adverse affect on something? On a scale of 1-10, I now feel like a 2. last week at this time...I was going great! I started the wellbutrin Monday, and haven't noticed anything different...other than a crappy nights sleep. My blood pressure has still been elevated.

I went back to 100mg T injection this week, and took the armidex back to the 1/4 pill instead of the half. Morning wood has been good...and spontaneous wood has actually been a lot better.
I go back to the dr in two weeks to go over the blood work. I should be able to get a copy of the blood before then. I hope to have that by the end of the week, or Monday.

If this 100mg/2xweek plus 1/4 pill Arimidex 3x/week worked for you, this may be the way to go.

Try to also stop the new medicines you just got.

How long have you been on this schedule, if say, more than 2 months, we can guess that this is what works for you, if less then you cannot draw that conclusion.

At this high level of T I doubt that HCG have any influence on you, other than keeping size of your balls. You must be primary if you can accept this large amount of Testosterone.
What is your SHBG, must be rather high.

With information that you have provided,
I would concentrate on Arimidex.
I was newer able to cut those pills evenly, specially into quarters.
I think your problems may be due to variable dose of Arimidex that you are taking.
Also 3x 1/4 pill=0.75 pill/week
that may be a small dose for 200mg/week testosterone.
Also there are people sensitive to infrequent shots.

Give me your SHBG, I will give you better estimate for your weekly T dose, in the mean time
assume 200mg/week.

I suggest you do this changes to your schedule:

Drop the new medications
Drop Arimidex and replace it with Liquidex from sponsor of this board;
AG-Guys & Affiliates :: Aromatase Inhibitors :: LiquiDex
LiquiDex - Anastrozole 30ml @ 1mg/ml

assuming you are using 200mg/mL injectable testosterone

Change you schedule to E2D, every other day.
200mg/week=(200mg/week)/200(mg/mL)=1cc/week=1/7*2=0.2857cc/E2D=28.5 units on insuline syringe per each shot
Each Testosterone shot=28.5 units
Liquidex on days of T shots, 0.3cc=30 units, measure it with small insulin syringe with cut out needle, cut deep to get whole needle out otherwise it will clog.
03cc*7/3=1.05pills/week, slightly more than your present 0.25 pill, but more often and much more accurate dose. If you really want, use 0.25cc=25 units
On days between T shots use HCG 250iu

Summary

day1=28.5units Testosterone + 30 units liquidex
day2=250iu HCG
================================================== ========
For your next blood test use this tests for adjusting T and Liquidex doses
Do the test at Quest Diagnostics, use tests exactly as written, each letter and number counts.
Estradiol, Free, LC/MS/MS (36169X)
Testosterone, Free, Bio/Total (LC/MS/MS)
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There are other health aspects.
We know nothing about them.
Look at my blood test list post #44 here:
Jan's BloodTest April13/2007 - Page 2