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Old 06-16-2007, 10:36 PM
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Default I am a fucking mess and I need help.

I am 38 years old and I recently realized that I have a serious condition of Adrenal Fatigue. This shouldn’t be surprising considering I’ve been on TRT for more than ten years as well as either Adderall or Ritalin for my ADHD.

And I’ve been under an extreme amount of stress over the past three years where I lost a job, broke up with a live-in girlfriend, was blacklisted from other jobs in the industry and was forced to move back into mother’s house.

I have since moved into my own place and started my own business, but the stress, of course, is still there in just trying to make a living. I’ve been self-medicating with my TRT these last two years because I have no insurance and I don’t have any confidence in doctors anyway.

The problem is I can’t even function most of the time. I wake up in the morning and I have no energy and my brain is so foggy. I work from my computer most of the time and I usually can’t get into the work groove until 4 p.m. or so.

I am a chronic insomniac and sometimes I am so tired at having not slept the night before that I can’t function during any part of the day. At night, when I feel I am going to get a good night’s sleep because I am so tired, I suddenly become wide awake where my heart starts pounding and my mind starts running. So the pattern repeats itself.

I started taking Ambien and that worked at first, but lately I’ve developed a tolerance to it. Sometimes I pound a few beers and that makes me feel good for a while. Maybe it has something to do with the increase of testosterone in the brain, as studies have indicated. But that is not a solution. Plus, the next mornings I feel worse than before.

I’ve been secondary hypogonadic since before puberty because I suffered a traumatic brain injury as a child. This is also probably why I have ADHD and have always been an insomniac.

Even though I always knew something was wrong with me because I never completed puberty, remaining in Tanner’s Fourth Stage instead of reaching the final Fifth Stage, doctors always told me I was normal. Not that they ever conducted any blood tests on me.

It wasn’t until I was 26 years old and had done some extensive research in the library (the days before internet) that I realized I needed to see an endocrinologist. He took some blood tests and my T level was 293, meaning I had the T level of an old man.

He gave me a prescription of Testosterone and I ended up leaving to Europe for two years, so was never able to do any follow ups. It was around this time that I also got on Ritalin after realizing I had been struggling with ADHD all my life.

For the first few months, I felt like a new man. Actually, for the first time in my life, I felt like a man. My libido was excellent, my mind was sharp and my confidence was high.

And although there were times when I was able to have three orgasms in one night, something I was never able to do before, there were also times when I couldn’t get it up.

So this became the pattern for the next ten years. A few years ago I asked my endo why did the T seem so inconsistent. After all, I was under the impression that testosterone was supposed to increase libido, not decrease it.

He recommended I “double-up” my dosage, meaning I went from 200 mg every two weeks to 200 mg every week. That, of course, only made things worse.

In other words, not one of the four endos I visited during that ten year period knew anything about escalating E2 levels. In fact, it wasn’t until I discovered this forum that I learned about E2’s effect on the body from T injections.

Since joining this forum in Dec 2005, I started using HCG and Arimidex. But the problems still persist. My libido sucks or even if it’s good, my erections suck.

I now realize I most likely have hypothyroidism and adrenal fatigue. I did the blood pressure test where you take it laying down, then stand up and take it again immediately and my BP drops instead of increases. This is a sign of hypothyroidism.

I’ve also done the temperature tests and my temperature is always more than one degree lower than 98.6, indicating adrenal fatigue. Plus, I feel burnt out all the time. It’s been like this for the last two or three years.

Now I am on a quest to remedy my adrenal glands and normalize my thyroid. I started using OTC hydrocortisone cream and it makes me feel better.

I’ve since ordered Armour and Cortex, but I’ve read that I should probably take the Cortex before the Armour.

Would someone please recommend dosages and strategies to help me overcome this adrenal/thyroid issue?
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Old 06-17-2007, 01:11 AM
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Default Re: I am a fucking mess and I need help.

I think that you have the results of these two backwards... IMO

Quote:
I now realize I most likely have hypothyroidism and adrenal fatigue. I did the blood pressure test where you take it laying down, then stand up and take it again immediately and my BP drops instead of increases. This is a sign of hypothyroidism.

I’ve also done the temperature tests and my temperature is always more than one degree lower than 98.6, indicating adrenal fatigue. Plus, I feel burnt out all the time. It’s been like this for the last two or three years.
I think that the first one "can" indicate adrenal fatigue (as well as a few other things) while the second one "can" indicate hypothroidism (as well as a couple other things).

IMO, I would get blood checks done for Free T3 and Free T4 thyroid hormone levels and a 24-hour Urinary Free Cortisol test done before I would jump the gun and start self-medicating on a couple wild guesses.

My temperature almost always runs .5 to 1.2 degrees under 98.6 - and my thyroid hormone levels are in excelllent ranges, I have good energy, etc. - and am clearly NOT hypothyroid... nor do I have "adrenal fatigue". Actually I have a slight case of just the opposite, of cortisol in the upper normal ranges... due - the doctors tell me - to the high amounts of stress that I have gone through. BTW, some of the symptoms of that elevated cortisol (upper normal to occasional above normal ranges)? Insomnia, racing thoughts at night, mild anxiety (comes and goes), foggy thinking (at times), fatigue, lack of energy, etc. Interestingly, when my cortisol levels first climbed up into those ranges (over a relatively short time period), I initially felt really good, even euphoric at times - but then it crashed. That euphoric feeling is apparently fairly common with initial stages of higher levels of cortisol (which is what you may be doing by self-medicating and adding more cortisol to what already "might" be a high cortisol problem).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cushing's_disease
(This site is more advanced as relates to Cushing's patients, people with ultra high levels of cortisol... but you get the point if you just scale it back several degrees).

Also, I think that I'd try a regimen of various Adaptogens to rebuild and rejuvenate a flagging thyroid system and // or adrenal system befoer jumping right in with Armour and Cortex, but hey, that just IMO....
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Old 06-17-2007, 05:53 AM
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Default Re: I am a fucking mess and I need help.

Well even if I have the two backwards, they still equal up to the same. I am a fucking mess and I need help.
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Old 06-17-2007, 08:08 AM
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Default Re: I am a fucking mess and I need help.

Sorry to hear about your problems Skeptic. I am in somewhat of a similar situation that T did nothing for me. Your ED/Low libido could definitelly be from hypothryoidism.

Why not go and see Dr Marianco? This stuff is way complex and i truelly believe that you need someone on his level to give proper and true answers for these hormonal conditions.

I am not wasting anymore time trying to deal with this on my own, i am flying out this week to see him, so i can start getting myself back on track.
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Old 06-17-2007, 10:27 AM
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Default Re: I am a fucking mess and I need help.

" I did the blood pressure test where you take it laying down, then stand up and take it again immediately and my BP drops instead of increases. This is a sign of hypothyroidism. "
This iscertainly not a difinitive test for anything. There are many cause of postural hypotension.

"Sometimes I pound a few beers and that makes me feel good for a while. Maybe it has something to do with the increase of testosterone in the brain, as studies have indicated. But that is not a solution. "
Could you please post a link or a clue where yu found these studies ? Ive been interested in this for years but have never found a shread of evidence that its true.

I think you need a LOT of blood work. Otherwise youre shooting in the dark Check out the hypothalmus, pituitary, gonads, adrenals, thyroid- the whole thing. Gonna be expensive. I can see thats going to be a problem.
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Old 06-17-2007, 10:30 AM
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Default Re: I am a fucking mess and I need help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Skeptic
Well even if I have the two backwards, they still equal up to the same. I am a fucking mess and I need help.
Post all (recent) blood tests that you have, value, units, range.
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Old 06-17-2007, 11:35 AM
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Default Re: I am a fucking mess and I need help.

He recommended I “double-up” my dosage, meaning I went from 200 mg every two weeks to 200 mg every week. That, of course, only made things worse.

In other words, not one of the four endos I visited during that ten year period knew anything about escalating E2 levels. In fact, it wasn’t until I discovered this forum that I learned about E2’s effect on the body from T injections.


It seems obvious that what you are going through is the same as what I went through a number of years ago. I wouldnt worry about hyperthyroidism or Cushings etc, because that should have been diagnosed by now.

Although alot of males who went through the growth hormone program of the 70's and 80's as kids, the fatality rate is extreamly high caused by adrenal failure. One of the main reasons is because the medical industry has forgotten about us and have left us for dead, but not all of us are prepared to accept it and fight on.

Like yourself as a primary sufferer also cause by TBI (elevated FSH), I never reached Tanner Stage 5 either. But I refer to your comments above, because the same thing happened to me with T shots and the elevated E2 with physical effects also.

Obviously there is some connection with prepubertal teticular failure, ADHD, sleep disorders (RLS) and PAIS, and I resolved these issues with Testosterone implants alone. I now finf myself on no other medication while implants resolved these issues.
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Old 06-17-2007, 11:39 AM
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Default Re: I am a fucking mess and I need help.

PS
Crystalized Testosterone (Pellets) does not convert into E2
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Old 06-17-2007, 12:42 PM
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Default Re: I am a fucking mess and I need help.

Skeptic my heart goes out to you I after 24 yrs of this crap am finely at 100% I co-mod at the Men's Thyroid at STTM site you need to go there if you have not done so all ready and read this whole site. They were a big help to me in getting my life back on track.
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/
You can find me here.
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com...wforum.php?f=2
and here.
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com...cfbab75bf5585b
Everything you have wrong I have but the puberty problem. Your not sleeping because your cortisol levels being low will bring your sugar down at night and your adrenaline up after I started treating my Adrenals and Thyroid this went away.

Here is a cut & paste of how I got started treating my Adrenals and Thyroid but if you find your estradiol high you need to treat this first.
It was sent to a Bill
===============================================
Bill sorry to hear you have this problem your cortisol is lower then my first test I was 8. The ACTH Stim test will show if it's you Adrenals or your Pituitary not sending the message ACTH to your Adrenals to make Cortisol. Here is a link to Chris's Explaination of the ACTH test you need to read this I have seen posts where Dr.'s did it wrong. You need to be sure you understand about this test and how to read it.
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com...opic.php?t=288.

Most people find out they have low cortisol because they have a low Thyroid Problem one needs cortisol to carry the thyroid hormone from the blood to the cells. If there cortisol is low do to Adrenal Fatigue there is not enough cortisol to do this and as they up there meds they start to feel hyper because the hormone is going to high in the blood and not being carried to the cells. One big cause of Adrenal Fatigue is a low Thyroid the Adrenals work over time to bring up levels of thyroid and become fatigued.

Now we are finding a lot of men with low T had Adrenal Fatigue do to the stress of low T be it from the fatigue of low T or the high Estradiol. But it's dam odd that as men hear about this and are not feeling 100% on TRT that after a blood test there cortisol levels are low.

The first thing I did was to try and figure out what stage of Adrenal Fatigue I was at and it looked like stage 3.
http://www.chronicfatigue.org/Selye%20large.html

Then I went to this site and printed out a chart for tracking your body's temps. I would take it under my arm before getting out of bed for 10 min.'s if it is under 97.8 you have a thyroid problem my temps that I did were for 4 morning and then I did an avg. it was 95.8.
http://www.drrind.com/tempgraph.asp#directions
Using this to take my temps it is also sold at Wall-Greens and Wal-mart.
http://www.wilsonsthyroidsyndrome.co...hermometer.htm

Then after I was up for 3 hrs I took my temp every 3 hrs 3 to 4 times a day and did an avg. My avg. was low between 96.8 to 97.6 and each day was up or down this is Adrenal Fatigue.

I then ordered a Saliva Test through this link.
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/
From the Canary Club for about $140.00 this is the best way to test cortisol levels and DHEA.

Then I bought the book "Adrenal Fatigue The 21st. Century by Wilson. This book was a big help in understanding this problem but doing what he said to treat it with stuff like this did nothing to my temp chart. It has this in it Pituitary Extract (Freeze-Dried) 120 mg
Adrenal Cortex Extract 33 mg and cortisol but you have no idea how much.
http://www.myvitanet.com/adsolfrac50c.html
Also he said to do B Vit.s.
http://www.myvitanet.com/endfadaenbco.html
Vit. C
http://www.myvitanet.com/supbiocbuf36.html
Everyone with low Cortisol has low DHEA I take this 2 a day.
http://www.myvitanet.com/dhea260capph.html
I take 3 grams of a good brand of Fish OIL. I buy mine at Coscos (spelling) I get the one that is coated so you don't burp it up.
And there is Maca this helps keep your Adrenal hormones leveled. I was off this for 30 days and just went back on it I feel better on this. I do 1/2 tsp 2 x's a day. This is the best price and product on he web.
http://www.macaweb.com/view.cfm/hurl...aw-Maca-Powder

I dropped the Adrenal cortex
http://www.myvitanet.com/adsolfrac50c.html
It did nothing.

I got some Isocort and started on it it is made from sheep adrenal's and wow the first pill made me feel good you need to start this slow. I did 4 pills = 10mgs. of cortisol first thing in the morning with food and 2 pills = 5mgs. of cortisol at noon and dinner. This changed my chart my temps come up to 98.4 to 99 but still up and down if your avg. is up or down from day to day more then .2 tenths your cortisol is still to low. I followed this to get started.
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com...o/how-to-treat
My Dr. would not give me Hydrocortisone said it's not safe to use. So I got this book by Dr. Jefferies "Safe Uses of Cortisol"
http://members.aol.com/jefferiesw/
http://www.ccthomas.com/details.cfm?P_ISBN=039807500X
Showed this to my Dr. and he blew it off and pissed me off.
I got up to 120mgs of Armour and could not do more my charting even showed my Adrenals were not right to go higher. So I switched to HC and stated with 10mgs. in the morning wow in less then a week my temps were a straight line across at 98.6 first time in 8 months of charting things were looking good and I was feeling better. So if you need to treat your Adrenals the best place for help is Val. at this link.
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com...wforum.php?f=5
Most of the people posting there are Thyroid and Adrenal Fatigue but she helps for Adrenals only too. Do get your thyroid checked have the TSH, Free T4 and Free T3 checked and post them to her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Skeptic
I am 38 years old and I recently realized that I have a serious condition of Adrenal Fatigue. This shouldn’t be surprising considering I’ve been on TRT for more than ten years as well as either Adderall or Ritalin for my ADHD.

And I’ve been under an extreme amount of stress over the past three years where I lost a job, broke up with a live-in girlfriend, was blacklisted from other jobs in the industry and was forced to move back into mother’s house.

I have since moved into my own place and started my own business, but the stress, of course, is still there in just trying to make a living. I’ve been self-medicating with my TRT these last two years because I have no insurance and I don’t have any confidence in doctors anyway.

The problem is I can’t even function most of the time. I wake up in the morning and I have no energy and my brain is so foggy. I work from my computer most of the time and I usually can’t get into the work groove until 4 p.m. or so.

I am a chronic insomniac and sometimes I am so tired at having not slept the night before that I can’t function during any part of the day. At night, when I feel I am going to get a good night’s sleep because I am so tired, I suddenly become wide awake where my heart starts pounding and my mind starts running. So the pattern repeats itself.

I started taking Ambien and that worked at first, but lately I’ve developed a tolerance to it. Sometimes I pound a few beers and that makes me feel good for a while. Maybe it has something to do with the increase of testosterone in the brain, as studies have indicated. But that is not a solution. Plus, the next mornings I feel worse than before.

I’ve been secondary hypogonadic since before puberty because I suffered a traumatic brain injury as a child. This is also probably why I have ADHD and have always been an insomniac.

Even though I always knew something was wrong with me because I never completed puberty, remaining in Tanner’s Fourth Stage instead of reaching the final Fifth Stage, doctors always told me I was normal. Not that they ever conducted any blood tests on me.

It wasn’t until I was 26 years old and had done some extensive research in the library (the days before internet) that I realized I needed to see an endocrinologist. He took some blood tests and my T level was 293, meaning I had the T level of an old man.

He gave me a prescription of Testosterone and I ended up leaving to Europe for two years, so was never able to do any follow ups. It was around this time that I also got on Ritalin after realizing I had been struggling with ADHD all my life.

For the first few months, I felt like a new man. Actually, for the first time in my life, I felt like a man. My libido was excellent, my mind was sharp and my confidence was high.

And although there were times when I was able to have three orgasms in one night, something I was never able to do before, there were also times when I couldn’t get it up.

So this became the pattern for the next ten years. A few years ago I asked my endo why did the T seem so inconsistent. After all, I was under the impression that testosterone was supposed to increase libido, not decrease it.

He recommended I “double-up” my dosage, meaning I went from 200 mg every two weeks to 200 mg every week. That, of course, only made things worse.

In other words, not one of the four endos I visited during that ten year period knew anything about escalating E2 levels. In fact, it wasn’t until I discovered this forum that I learned about E2’s effect on the body from T injections.

Since joining this forum in Dec 2005, I started using HCG and Arimidex. But the problems still persist. My libido sucks or even if it’s good, my erections suck.

I now realize I most likely have hypothyroidism and adrenal fatigue. I did the blood pressure test where you take it laying down, then stand up and take it again immediately and my BP drops instead of increases. This is a sign of hypothyroidism.

I’ve also done the temperature tests and my temperature is always more than one degree lower than 98.6, indicating adrenal fatigue. Plus, I feel burnt out all the time. It’s been like this for the last two or three years.

Now I am on a quest to remedy my adrenal glands and normalize my thyroid. I started using OTC hydrocortisone cream and it makes me feel better.

I’ve since ordered Armour and Cortex, but I’ve read that I should probably take the Cortex before the Armour.

Would someone please recommend dosages and strategies to help me overcome this adrenal/thyroid issue?
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Old 06-17-2007, 03:17 PM
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Thumbs down Re: I am a fucking mess and I need help.

I am out of here on this one... This type of self-medicating on what one is guessing at... and even worse on what someone else's symptoms are (Phil, IMO you should start worrying about getting sued for someone getting hurt by your constantly telling them how just alike their symptoms are to what you went through and then recommending specific treatments that duplicate your own... because when you publish them in the manner that you do, you're inferring a recommendation - and begging for a lawsuit IMHO).

This is just crazy. This guy needs a complete work up (I notice he never did respond as to whether he's actually had his cortisol checked at all - much less proeprly checked).

Respond as you will, but I'm done with this thread!

My guess is that this guy is going to end up worse off than he already has been at this rate.
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