just back from endo

[billythebaxter]

just back from my first endo appt.

27 years old low testosterone (referred from GP)
my original test result showed 9.3 (normal being 11-40)

anyway the endo has ordered the following:

E/LFT's
T4
T3
TSH
LH
FSH
OESTRADIOL
PROLACTIN
TOTAL TEST
FREE TEST
PSA
LIPIDS
HDL
ACTH (9am and 4pm)
CORTISOL (9am and 4pm)
IGF1
17OH PREOGESTERONE
ANDROSTENEDIONE
DHEAS
SHBG

are all the test pretty standard in this situation or is there anything there that stands out that this DOC might have some radical idea about whats causing my low test.

he was quite interested that i have been on the antidepressant paroxetine (AKA paxil/aropax/seroxat etc etc) for 5 years. he said this could be the reason for my low test but he isnt sure yet.

thanks guys
billy

(he also felt my testicles and said they were normal size and consistency)

[tbach]

I would say from my own experience that you are fortunate in finding an endo who has some idea of what to check for . . .

I have been under Testosterone Replacement Therapy for 10 months . . . and it has been a bumpy ride. My GP has been very supportive, but when it recently became evident that my problems were more than he could handle, he suggested an area endo. My estradiol is, and has been out of control - should be in the 10-30 range, but has never been lower than 55, and as high as 101. Although men need some estradiol/estrogen, excessive amounts can lead to many serious medical problems.

My GP has a pretty good sense of humor . . . told me I was watching too much Oprah and The View - no wonder my estrogen was so high!

Since I had to wait almost 6 weeks for an initial appointment with the endo, I decided to "interview him" via fax, asking questions about his experience with TRT, the methods of replacement therapy he uses (gel, patch, injections, implants, cream) and whether he prescribes something to control estradiol. A few days later, I received an answer . . . this endo claims to have helped many patients successfully with TRT, and yet he doesn't even TEST for estradiol . . . and never prescribes anything to control it. Needless to say, I cancelled my appointment and started knocking on some other doors. I live in a highly populated Southern California location . . . could not find a single endo to deal with my elevated estradiol. Through a series of coincidences, I found an anti-aging clinic in my area and a doctor there who seems to know what she is doing. She ordered a series of bloodtests . . . almost the same as yours, by the way, and we are currently working on determining the best route to take. She had no hesitation prescribing low-dose compounded anastozole (arimidex) to control my galloping estradiol, and after just a week under her care, I am feeling much better physically and emotionally.

Best of luck to you - It seems that you are in good hands.

[zkt]

Thwe tests are standard thyroid, adrenal, pituitary, gonad tests, cholesterol and lipids.
What are your Sx ?
When did Sx start ?

[billythebaxter]

Originally Posted by zkt

Thwe tests are standard thyroid, adrenal, pituitary, gonad tests, cholesterol and lipids.
What are your Sx ?
When did Sx start ?

im guessing sx means symptoms?

always lifted weights (never juiced though) and about a year ago i noticed i wasnt making gains at all...training 5 days a week and 3 days of cardio but not even shifting the flab off my gut that had accumulated over the previous year.
sleeping 12 hours straight at night and taking 1 hour naps in afternoon.
somewhat depressed/lethargic
not much motivation
decreased libido/decreased erections/morning wood almost non existent

[zkt]

Guess you know Paxil has sexual side effects. But sleeping 12 hrs- dont think so.
The labs ought to be interesting

[billythebaxter]

Originally Posted by zkt

Guess you know Paxil has sexual side effects. But sleeping 12 hrs- dont think so.
The labs ought to be interesting

in your personal opinion do u think long term paxil use could lower T?

[JanSz]

Originally Posted by billythebaxter

just back from my first endo appt.

27 years old low testosterone (referred from GP)
my original test result showed 9.3 (normal being 11-40)

anyway the endo has ordered the following:

E/LFT's
T4 change this to FreeT4
T3 change this to FreeT3
TSH
LH
FSH
OESTRADIOL change this to estradiol sensitive
PROLACTIN
TOTAL TEST
FREE TEST add BioAvailableTestosterone
PSA
LIPIDS
HDL
ACTH (9am and 4pm)
CORTISOL (9am and 4pm)
IGF1
17OH PREOGESTERONE add pregnenolone
ANDROSTENEDIONE
DHEAS
SHBG add Albumin

are all the test pretty standard in this situation or is there anything there that stands out that this DOC might have some radical idea about whats causing my low test.

he was quite interested that i have been on the antidepressant paroxetine (AKA paxil/aropax/seroxat etc etc) for 5 years. he said this could be the reason for my low test but he isnt sure yet.

thanks guys
billy

(he also felt my testicles and said they were normal size and consistency)

I made the suggested changes in red.
I often post long blood tes that I do yearly,
if you want I can post it again.
---------------------------------
If you can, do the blood test at Quest Diagnostics,
LabCorp is second choice.
I any case, insist at blood draw at the labs drawing place, definitely not at the doctor's office.
Find it here:
http://questdiagnostics.com/hcp/psc/..._psc_index.jsp

[pmgamer18]

I am betting he has Adrenal Fatigue. Training 5 days a week and 3 days of cardio will do it. I know your going to say no your rest and let your body heal. But I see this all the time guys over do it there diet is off you need fat in your Diet to make T your body starts breaking down your cortisol levels get low and this mess's up everything and you end up with low T, By the time you see this it to late and you end up burning out your Adrenals.

[Sargovar]

Billythebaxter,

I believe Paxil may certainly have contributed to your low T, even if there are other factors at play as well.

Here's an article on antidepressant induced low T:

http://www.priory.com/psych/sexdys.htm

Apparently, SSRI type antidepressants (which I understand Paxil is) not only lower your total and free testosterone, but also elevate your prolactin levels. Not good.

I used to take Zoloft, and I went borderline impotent, and felt like a weak, helpless child, even if it did dull the edge off the depression. God knows how low it made my testosterone go.. I never had any bloodwork done during that time. In fact, I've only had one bloodtest of that nature during my entire life.. I believe it was last december (I had been off antidepressants for about a year) and my total T came back at 517. Not terribly low, but it could definitely be higher for a 22 year old man that lives healthy and avoids stress. I also struggle with making progress in lifting these days, feel apathetic, and don't have a huge sex drive (it's not nonexistent, but it could definitely be stronger)..
Anyway, I quit taking zoloft (and any/all other antidepressants), and in retrospect, I haven't been any worse off. I believe the greedy drug companies push these types of drugs on the market before their long term effects on the human body and brain chemistry are thoroughly established.

I would suggest alternative forms of treatment.. maybe tryptophan, omega 3s, saint john's wort.. and also, should you get your testosterone levels back up, many of the symptoms of depression just might go away on their own. Testosterone seems to exhibit potent antidepressant properties.. possibly one reason why men are less susceptible to it (at least its more extreme forms) than women.

[billythebaxter]

Originally Posted by Sargovar

Billythebaxter,

I believe Paxil may certainly have contributed to your low T, even if there are other factors at play as well.

Here's an article on antidepressant induced low T:

http://www.priory.com/psych/sexdys.htm

Apparently, SSRI type antidepressants (which I understand Paxil is) not only lower your total and free testosterone, but also elevate your prolactin levels. Not good.

I used to take Zoloft, and I went borderline impotent, and felt like a weak, helpless child, even if it did dull the edge off the depression. God knows how low it made my testosterone go.. I never had any bloodwork done during that time. In fact, I've only had one bloodtest of that nature during my entire life.. I believe it was last december (I had been off antidepressants for about a year) and my total T came back at 517. Not terribly low, but it could definitely be higher for a 22 year old man that lives healthy and avoids stress. I also struggle with making progress in lifting these days, feel apathetic, and don't have a huge sex drive (it's not nonexistent, but it could definitely be stronger)..
Anyway, I quit taking zoloft (and any/all other antidepressants), and in retrospect, I haven't been any worse off. I believe the greedy drug companies push these types of drugs on the market before their long term effects on the human body and brain chemistry are thoroughly established.

I would suggest alternative forms of treatment.. maybe tryptophan, omega 3s, saint john's wort.. and also, should you get your testosterone levels back up, many of the symptoms of depression just might go away on their own. Testosterone seems to exhibit potent antidepressant properties.. possibly one reason why men are less susceptible to it (at least its more extreme forms) than women.

thanks for your input mate...the more i research data about antidepressant use and Low T levels the more nervous (yet relieved) i get. The correlation seems blatant yet there are very few clinical studies to back it up, hence doctors are somewhat reluctant to place blame.

the fact ive been on an ssri for 5 years scares me into thinking that my T levels may not recover when i do come off the drug. (which i hope to be very soon as i have already halved my dosage to just half a pill a day).

thanks for the interesting link.

billy

[billythebaxter]

Originally Posted by Sargovar

Billythebaxter,

I believe Paxil may certainly have contributed to your low T, even if there are other factors at play as well.

Here's an article on antidepressant induced low T:

http://www.priory.com/psych/sexdys.htm

Apparently, SSRI type antidepressants (which I understand Paxil is) not only lower your total and free testosterone, but also elevate your prolactin levels. Not good.

I used to take Zoloft, and I went borderline impotent, and felt like a weak, helpless child, even if it did dull the edge off the depression. God knows how low it made my testosterone go.. I never had any bloodwork done during that time. In fact, I've only had one bloodtest of that nature during my entire life.. I believe it was last december (I had been off antidepressants for about a year) and my total T came back at 517. Not terribly low, but it could definitely be higher for a 22 year old man that lives healthy and avoids stress. I also struggle with making progress in lifting these days, feel apathetic, and don't have a huge sex drive (it's not nonexistent, but it could definitely be stronger)..
Anyway, I quit taking zoloft (and any/all other antidepressants), and in retrospect, I haven't been any worse off. I believe the greedy drug companies push these types of drugs on the market before their long term effects on the human body and brain chemistry are thoroughly established.

I would suggest alternative forms of treatment.. maybe tryptophan, omega 3s, saint john's wort.. and also, should you get your testosterone levels back up, many of the symptoms of depression just might go away on their own. Testosterone seems to exhibit potent antidepressant properties.. possibly one reason why men are less susceptible to it (at least its more extreme forms) than women.

i also just noticed you said you had been off zoloft for a year and your T levels came back at 517. How long were you on zoloft in total? it'll be interesting to see how your T levels bounce back over the next few months.

[Sargovar]

I think I was on and off for at least 3 years, and I tried other antidepressants before that, Seronil being one of them. That one gave me horrible morning nausea, whereas Zoloft left me zombified, suffering from a general feeling of helplessness, and lacking any sex drive/ability to acheive orgasm.

The test result was taken during a cold, dark time of year, and I didn't make it to the lab first thing in the morning, so I suppose it's possible I could be a bit higher if I went and got my testosterone levels checked now, for instance., when summer is approaching, and there is more light and warmth.

I'm planning on more bloodtests as soon as I can get an appointment, not only covering testosterone, but potential adrenaline fatigue, elevated estradiol etc.

Anyway, hope you can find the right kind of treatment for what's ailing you. I am no expert in this field, but I can say that a testosterone score of 9.3 (which would translate to 265 in US units) is well below what is acceptable.

[Sargovar]

Originally Posted by billythebaxter

thanks for your input mate...the more i research data about antidepressant use and Low T levels the more nervous (yet relieved) i get. The correlation seems blatant yet there are very few clinical studies to back it up, hence doctors are somewhat reluctant to place blame.

the fact ive been on an ssri for 5 years scares me into thinking that my T levels may not recover when i do come off the drug. (which i hope to be very soon as i have already halved my dosage to just half a pill a day).

thanks for the interesting link.

billy

No problem, glad to be of help.

Even though antidepressants may help relieve some of the symptoms of depression.. I think they may also be counterproductive. Let's face it, when you're depressed and have all the symptoms, the last thing you want is for your testosterone levels to drop. There must be alternatives to SSRIs out there that don't interfere with your hormonal health...

I wish I could give more input on how well a person's endocrine functioning recovers from long term/heavy dosage SSRI use.. I guess I'm going to be a bit of a guinea pig and find out. I just wish I had done some bloodwork while I was on the meds.. would have given me a better point of reference.