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Old 08-28-2005, 07:58 AM
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What are the best ways to keep DHT low when on Gels? Mine rose to 163 on 1 1/2 Testim.
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Old 08-28-2005, 10:00 AM
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Here is something I posted under the "Finally got my Compounded Gel" thread.

Interesting Study

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Seems applying transdermal T to less surface area results in lower DHT levels. This means using a higher concentration (5% to 1%) results in less skin area and less DHT.

Pharmacokinetics of Transdermal Testosterone Gel in Hypogonadal Men: Application of Gel at One Site Versus Four Sites: A General Clinical Research Center Study1
C. Wang, N. Berman, J. A. Longstreth, B. Chuapoco, L. Hull, B. Steiner, S. Faulkner, R. E. Dudley and R. S. Swerdloff
Division of Endocrinology, Departments of Medicine (C.W., B.C., L.H., B.S., R.S.S.) and Pediatrics (N.B.), Harbor–UCLA Medical Center and Research and Education Institute, Torrance, California 90509; and Unimed Pharmaceuticals, Inc. (J.A.L., S.F., R.E.D.), Buffalo Grove, Illinois 60089

Address correspondence and requests for reprints to: Christina Wang, Clinical Study Center Box 16, Harbor–UCLA Medical Center, 1000 West Carson Street, Torrance, California 90509. E-mail: wang@gcrc.humc.edu.

Testosterone (T) in a hydroalcoholic gel has been developed as an effective and convenient open system for transdermal delivery of the hormone to men. Because the gel can be applied either to small or large areas of skin, it was important to assess whether the skin surface area on which the gel was applied was an important determinant of serum T levels. To answer this question, the pharmacokinetics of a transdermal 1% hydroalcoholic gel preparation of T was studied in nine hypogonadal men. The subjects applied in random order a 25-mg metered dose of T gel either four times at one site (left arm/shoulder) or at four different sites (left and right arms/shoulders and left and right abdomen) once daily (6–8 min) for 7 consecutive days. After 7 days of washout, each subject was then crossed over to the opposite regimen for another 7 days of treatment. Serum samples were collected for measurements of T, 5 dihydrotestosterone (DHT), and estradiol before, during (days 1, 2, 3, 5, and 7), and after (days 8, 9, 11, 13, and 15) application of T gel. Multiple blood samples were drawn on the 1st and 7th day after gel application; single samples were obtained just before the next T gel application on other days (24 h after the previous gel application). The T gel dried in less than 5 min, left no residue, and produced no skin irritation in any of the subjects. Mean serum T levels, irrespective of application at one site or four sites followed the same pattern: rising to 2- to 3- and 4- to 5-fold above baseline at 0.5 and 24 h after first application, respectively. Thereafter, serum T levels reached steady state and remained at 4- to 5-fold above baseline (at the upper limit of the normal adult range) for the duration of gel application and returned to baseline within 4 days after stopping application. The application of T gel at four sites (application skin area approximately four times that of one site) resulted in a mean area under the curve (AUC0–24h) for serum T levels on the 7th day (868 ± 72 nmol*h/L, mean ± SEM), which was 23% higher but not significantly different (P = 0.06) than repeated application at one site (706 ± 59 nmol*h/L). This could be due to the limited number of subjects studied (n = 9). Mean serum DHT levels followed the same pattern as serum T, achieving steady-state levels by 2 days. The mean concentration of serum DHT on the 7th day was significantly higher after application at four sites (9.15 ± 1.26 nmol/L, P < 0.05) than at one site (6.9 ± 0.77 nmol/L). These serum DHT levels were at or above the normal adult male range. Serum DHT:T ratio was not significantly altered by T gel application. Serum estradiol levels followed the same pattern as serum T and showed no significant difference between the one- or four-site application. We conclude that transdermal daily application of 100 mg T gel resulted in similar steady levels of serum T. The surface area of the skin to which the gel was applied had only a modest impact on serum T and DHT levels. Mean serum levels of T and DHT was higher by 23% and 33%, respectively, despite application of the gel to four times the skin area in the four sites compared with the one site group. Because of the greater dosage flexibility provided, hydroalcoholic T gel application over multiple sites seems to be an effective and nonskin-irritating method of transdermal T delivery for hypogonadal men. Dose-ranging studies are required to determine dosage regimens for T gel application as a replacement therapy in hypogonadal men.


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Old 08-28-2005, 10:25 AM
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What exactly are they saying. I put 1 1/2 Testim on 2 arms. Are you saying get a compounded cream that is a higher concentration and just put it on 1 arm?
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Old 08-28-2005, 10:30 AM
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Where did you get your compounded gel? How much?
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Old 08-28-2005, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SinginHawk
What are the best ways to keep DHT low when on Gels? Mine rose to 163 on 1 1/2 Testim.
A low dose of hCG throughout the week might allow you to use less Testim, allowing you to maintain good serum testosterone levels but lower your DHT.

And intramuscular injections can be expected to help of course.

It is possible that a compound gel or cream, formulated with a higher concentration of testosterone so that you put less on, would result in a different DHT elevation. What difference would it make? I have no idea.
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Old 08-28-2005, 01:24 PM
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If you are doing a tube of gel, would it be better to put the whole tube on one arm or split it between two. If you are saying that the more skin area the more DHT then I would think it would be better to put it all on one arm and alternate each day, or would that limit the absorbtion?

Make any sense?
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Old 08-28-2005, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SinginHawk
If you are doing a tube of gel, would it be better to put the whole tube on one arm or split it between two. If you are saying that the more skin area the more DHT then I would think it would be better to put it all on one arm and alternate each day, or would that limit the absorbtion?

Make any sense?
I understand exactly what you are saying, but I just don't know the answers. I guess you could try applying the testim to a smaller area of the skin and see what happens. If you do, then please let us know the results!
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Old 08-28-2005, 04:29 PM
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I am not worried about a DHT level that high.
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Old 08-28-2005, 06:10 PM
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Yes, that is what the study says. Less surface area used = less DHT conversion. I'm not saying go get a compounded product, just use the least surface area possible and try to avoid "hairy" locations as I believe the chance for DHT conversion is greater there. I would probably only recommend inner arms.
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Old 08-29-2005, 05:41 AM
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Squeeze all of the gel from the foil packet, the tube, or the number of pumps if using the pump bottle, into a cupped palm. Gently press your two palms together. When you separate your hands, you will have very nearly half of the gel on each palm. Do not rub your hands together. Try to keep the gel on the palms, instead of getting between the fingers. Then simply cross your arms, wiping the gel over your shoulders and upper arms. Thus apply most of it across your upper arms and shoulders. Absolutely avoid the area where they draw the blood from. Finish off by wiping what is left down your FLANKS (sides of your abdomen—not the middle). Then thoroughly wash your hands. Once you have washed them, there is no worry whatsoever about accidental transferal to others, as there is none left on the surface to transfer. Studies have shown this, and also that merely putting on a T-shirt to cover the exposed areas will do the same for the rest of you. If you had to, you could shower in an hour or so, without appreciable loss of testosterone delivery, as the gel soaks into the skin, and the skin acts as the actual reservoir for dispensation of the drug. You wouldn’t want to do this all the time, but swimming or showering in a pinch can be done. It's still a good idea to take a quick shower before engaging in intimacy.

For maximum effect, apply the gel within 3 minutes of showering.

You want a delay of at least two hours after application before drawing labs.
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