Latest labs - hCG working or not?

[JackBauer]

(Latest results at the bottom - first a bit of history)

4 years ago lost almost all testicular function in one testes due to a torsion.

No treatment:
4/14/04 Total T 261 ng/dL (Labcorp)
5/7/06 Total T 350 ng/dL (Labcorp)

Clomid Stimulation Test:
9/23/06 Total T: 525 ng/dL (Quest)
9/23/06 Estradiol-Ultrasensitive: 34 pg/mL (Quest)

Clomid Treatment - 25mg Time release, 3x a week:
11/30/06 Total T: 436 ng/dL (Unsure - may have been done in house by hospital)
11/30/06 17-Beta Estradiol: 30 pg/mL

hCG Treatment,500 IU, 3x a week, 6 weeks, SQ at night before bed: (APP hCG)
1/30/07 Total T: 386 ng/dL (Quest)
1/30/07 Estradiol, High Sensitivity: 34 pg/mL

hCG Treatment, 700 IU, 3x a week, 3 weeks, SQ at night before bed: (APP for 9 of 10 shots, Novarel for the last)
03/03/07 Total T: 308 ng/dL (Quest)
03/03/07 Estradiol, High Sensitivity: 36 pg/dL

hCG Treatment, 800 IU, 3x a week, 3 weeks, SQ at night beforea bed. (Novarel brand)
04/28/07 Total T: 403 ng/dL A(Quest)
04/28/07 Estradiol, High Sensitivity: 28 pg/mL


Ok so in summary my latest regimen with 800 IU, 3x a week has produced a nearly 100 ng/dL improvement. However it is not substantially higher than my no treatment test of 5/7/06. (15% improvement) And it is only 4% better than 500 IU 3x a week.

So I really have no idea if it is working or not.

Although at least my test results did not dip like they did when I went from 500 IU to 700 IU.

What are your thoughts?

Thanks guys...

[Primordial Performance]

It think its obvious that the hCG is not really cutting it, and that your leydigs are significantly desensitized. I would guess that your insulin sensitivity is less than optimal too, as leydig sensitivity directly correlates with insulin sensitivity. Really, if you expect your T levels to go up any further your going to have to take some progressive action now, while also focusing on the long term idea of improving insulin sensitivity.

Here is thee’ most aggressive protocol Im aware of for quickly reinstating leydig sensitivity -

Begin IGF-1 at 40mcg twice a day ED, along with FSH/HMG at 100iu EOD. Do this for two weeks, and then begin 1000iu shots 3x week of the hCG for 2 weeks while continuing the IGF-1 and FSH treatment. Also, during your HCG treatment, begin 20mg ED of aromasin. Supplementing with Vitamin E during this time would also be beneficial. After following this 4 week protocol, have your levels tested again.

BTW, Is insurance paying for this?

-Pp

[pmgamer18]

This is why you need to add in T shots do like Dr. John does 100mgs of T every week and on the 5th and 6th days each do up to 500 IU's of HCG. I only know one guy that gets his levels up on just HCG David Z and he is undre Dr. Shippens care and only does 65 IU's a day.

[Megazoid]

Really might be an idea todo injections like phil suggested, your t is pretty low. However Pp seem's to have exstensive knowledge of dealing with the leydig cells and getting the testicles back into gear, so i would trust his judgement here. I wasn't aware of the IGF-1 link but i have heard something about hypothyroidism or elevated TSH causing a leydig cell regeneration process to occur (or cell maturing or something) so maybe there is a link somewhere.

Jack, wouldn't a torsion cause damage to the small blood vessels in a similar fashion (if not identical) to a varicocele? It's possible the blood flow has been effected. Is the testicle atrophied and do you ever get pain in the spermatic cord/veins?

[JackBauer]

Thanks guys...

Regarding insulin sensitivity... Not sure if it is relevant but recent labs:

Fasting GIlucose: 91mg/dL (3 months old)
Serum Insulin: 9 uIU/mL (6 months old)

I don't mind going on exogenous T... But I am concerned about my remaining healthy testicle also going atrophic.

(Mega - my other testicle was not harmed in any way)

[pmgamer18]

Originally Posted by JackBauer

Thanks guys...

Regarding insulin sensitivity... Not sure if it is relevant but recent labs:

Fasting GIlucose: 91mg/dL (3 months old)
Serum Insulin: 9 uIU/mL (6 months old)

I don't mind going on exogenous T... But I am concerned about my remaining healthy testicle also going atrophic.

(Mega - my other testicle was not harmed in any way)

Look at me case I am told I am Primary for over 23 yrs. then I get my Dr. to add HCG to my T shots doing 500 IU's 3 times a week. After my 15th shot of HCG we tested and my levels doubled. My testis were the size of small grapes after being on HCG for just 6 months my testis are back to the size they were when I was in my 20's so if you do T shots and stay on HCG your testis will not get atrophic or smaller.

[JackBauer]

Thanks Phil...

I'm just a little concerned because my testes do not seem to be reacting much (if at all) to the hCG... So to me there is no guarantee that if I go on exogenous T, that hCG will keep the other one from shrinking.

[pmgamer18]

Well look at it this way when mine were small the were never in the way now all I do is keep pulling them out the the way.