Men's Health Forum: This is a discussion on Low Free Testosterone within the Anabolic Steroids forums, part of the extensive steroid information at MESO-Rx; When I started on HCG I was told I am primary my testis don't work I went on 500 IU's ...
When I started on HCG I was told I am primary my testis don't work I went on 500 IU's 3 x's a week and by the 15th shot we did blood work and my total T went from 600 to 1200 now bear in mind my labs range is 262 to 1593 it's much higher then Quest. So this is how I found out I am Secondary. Now to you if you do this and by the 15th. shot your levels don't go way up your primary and all the HCG in the world will not make your Testis make a lot of T if your levels were 300 at base line test this may be all your testis can put out. Now when you first got tested did they check your LH and FSH if this was low also then you my well be secondary. Bottom line start at 500 IU's 3 x's a week. The T cream works dam good and will in time bring down your DHT levels but it will take some time.
If your levels go why up then I would start to cut back on the dose. Note: don't stop the androgel until your see how your levels go on HCG. If you change to the cream you will not have apples to apples to compare to.
APP is not any good I am not bull shiting you. Get novarel after you mix it keep it cold.
__________________
Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see.
Phil
When I started on HCG I was told I am primary my testis don't work I went on 500 IU's 3 x's a week and by the 15th shot we did blood work and my total T went from 600 to 1200 now bear in mind my labs range is 262 to 1593 it's much higher then Quest. So this is how I found out I am Secondary. Now to you if you do this and by the 15th. shot your levels don't go way up your primary and all the HCG in the world will not make your Testis make a lot of T if your levels were 300 at base line test this may be all your testis can put out. Now when you first got tested did they check your LH and FSH if this was low also then you my well be secondary. Bottom line start at 500 IU's 3 x's a week. The T cream works dam good and will in time bring down your DHT levels but it will take some time.
If your levels go why up then I would start to cut back on the dose. Note: don't stop the androgel until your see how your levels go on HCG. If you change to the cream you will not have apples to apples to compare to.
APP is not any good I am not bull shiting you. Get novarel after you mix it keep it cold.
My baseline, before I started on Androgel.
E2=24 (0-52)
LU=5.7(1.5-9.3)
Prolactin=7.2((2.1-17.7)
TT=311(241-827)
FreeT=6.0(2.6-64.8) (useless but low)
FSH not checked
SHBG not checked
Albumin not checked
And Mr director of Sexual health department at university hospital in Manhattan told me to forget about sex at my age. (That would make my wife happy).
screw.
One day when I am pissed enough I will post his name.
My baseline, before I started on Androgel.
E2=24 (0-52)
LU=5.7(1.5-9.3)
Prolactin=7.2((2.1-17.7)
TT=311(241-827)
FreeT=6.0(2.6-64.8) (useless but low)
FSH not checked
SHBG not checked
Albumin not checked
And Mr director of Sexual health department at university hospital in Manhattan told me to forget about sex at my age. (That would make my wife happy).
screw.
One day when I am pissed enough I will post his name.
Yea my wife too what is with women when they get older but I can still get it off the hell with her.
LU is this a typo if you ment LH then your testis are not going to put out a lot of T but still will work again and get back to a good size. They need to work some to make a level of 311. My total T was 120 on my first test.
__________________
Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see.
Phil
Damm it is not Novarel but Chorionc Gonadotropin 10000U APP
same difference I hope.
Don’t worry about it. The APP works fine and I have my T labs to prove it. I was doing T Cream solo for a while and drew labs which showed my Total T low. I then added APP HCG and drew labs again and my Total T went way up. The Novarel did however seem to have more of a kick from what I recall from using it, but it could be a subjective observation and not scientifically based.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JanSz
10000Iu vial have a 40 doses if I use 250IU per shot. If I do that every other day, that is 80 days.
I should use opened vial within 30 days, may be 60 (if Dr Shippen is right), but not 80.
I hate to throw away good medicine. If I use a dose 333IU it will last 60 days.
Well, my balls are practically gone now, after 3 years on Androgel. For the first month maybe even first two months I could use 400IU but no more than 500IU every other day.
Your dosage for HCG when doing a daily T Cream and daily HCG protocol should be not more than 100iu per day, every day. With your balls almost being gone, you may now be primary hypogonodal, in which case HCG might not even be necessary and could be substituted for oral pregnenolone. If you wish to temporarily overstimulate your testes into hopefully growing again, you could use between 150iu every day, or perhaps 250iu every couple of days until your testes have regained their size. Remember that going slow and being conservative is good for your health. HCG really ramps up aromatase activity, and so you have to be carefull that you don’t end up with high estrogen and the related problems, one of which would be gyno. Once your nuts have been restored to normal size, drop your HCG dosage to 100iu per day, every day. If your nuts do not recover after a couple months, then you do not need HCG, and can take pregnenolone to get some of the benefits of HCG.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JanSz
In order to please 1cc , and possibly reduce my high DHT or at least that amount that is associated with large application area that I am having now, I have ordered 100mg/gram Testosterone Cream.
I am using Androgel 7.5 gram, there is 75mg of testosterone in that amount of gel.
To get the same amount testosterone I have to use 0.75gram of cream.
1/4 teaspoon = 1 gram, 1/8 tsp = 1/2gram
so I need one and half of 1/8tsp , I guess they are not heaping but flat spoons.
Your results from Androgel and T Cream will be different. You may need less/more T Cream to obtain the same results as Androgel. It is going to take a few months and labs to find what works for you. Go slow on dosage, increasing dosage only as warranted by labs. Start out with 25mg T Cream, do labs and increase T Cream if required. Have a prostate exam every 4 weeks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmgamer18
My point is we don't need all of this tested and it does not help when one is on TRT all one needs to know is there Total T for dosing. I just don't see how anyone can change there dose of TRT by looking at BAT or Free T.
Bioavailable T is very important, especially in cases where one has low SHBG, like me. This is the only way one can know if one is taking too much T. Even though my Total T is midrange, my bioavailable T is at 80% of the valid range. If I were to go only by Total T, then I would increase my T dosage and my bioavailable T would go over the top. This happened to me in the past where my Total T was in the upper quarter of the range, which caused my bioavailable T to go to 130% of the range, which caused me to have polycythemia. This is a post by Dr. John stressing the importance of bioavailable T labs.
So what is this going to tell me my Free T on my test is 22.5 pg/ml.
Using the calculator the numbers on below.
I just don't see how this helps one on dosing and still it's just a tool we still need to go by how we feel. Changing one's does to keep E2 down in nuts some of us have very high E2 not on TRT.
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Free & Bioavailable Testosterone calculator
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These calculated parameters more accurately reflect the level of bioactive testosterone than does the sole measurement of total serum testosterone. Testosterone and dihydrotestosterone (DHT) circulate in plasma unbound (free approximately 2 - 3%) ,bound to specific plasma proteins (sex hormone-binding globulin SHBG) and weakly bound to nonspecific proteins such as albumin. The SHBG-bound fraction is biologically inactive because of the high binding affinity of SHBG for testosterone. Free testosterone measures the free fraction, bioavailable testosterone includes free plus weakly bound to albumin.
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Albumin 4.3 g/dLg/L
SHBG 22 nmol/L
Testosterone 807 ng/dLng/mLnmol/dLnmol/mLnmol/L
Explanation and examples
Disclaimer: Results from this calculator should NOT be solely relied upon in making (or refraining from making) any decision in any case/ circumstances without the prior consultation of experts or professional persons. No responsability whatsoever is assumed for its correctness or suitability for any given purpose.
WARNING! The calculated free and bioavailable testosterone are reliable in most clinical situations, but should not be relied upon in situations with potential massive interference by steroids binding to SHBG; e.g. in women during pregnancy, in men during treatment inducing high levels of DHT (e.g. transdermal DHT, oral testosterone) or mesterolon
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This calculator was developed at the Hormonology department, University Hospital of Ghent, Belgium. If you have suggestions to improve this calculator, or for further questions or help contact us Dr. Tom Fiers or Prof. Dr. J.M. Kaufman
__________________
Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see.
Phil
Ok Dr. John says you must run BAT but the labs calculator the numbers the same as in my post above. I guess you found a use for it but for me I don't see how it helps. It's just like Shippen with his T to E2 ratio a lot of use tried this and felt worse. All of this are just tools still the best is to go by now one feels.
__________________
Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see.
Phil
Hi 1cc;
On that thread I posted http://anabolicminds.com/forum/showp...3&postcount=24
and was hoping to get some traction (discussion) on:
---------http://www.atypon-link.com/WDG/doi/pdf/10.1515/JLM.2006.050
I like to look at their Figure6, wish it had better resolution.
It would be even better if there was a mathematical calculator such as this http://www.issam.ch/freetesto.htm
If there is, please post a link.
I like in their Table 2
10 healthy young men, TT level, SHBG level, Albumin level, BAT level
and Table 4
10 male control subjects, TT, SHBG, FT level
These are our goal numbers (but when talking about FreeT and BAT one have to use new method)
---------
Their assays of FreeT and BAT, that they use, are research quality and should not be mistaken for what we can get at commercial laboratories.
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Also this quotes:
CalcV was reported to overestimate BAT by a factor of 1.5–2.2 [12]. Moreover, CalcV was first proposed
in 1999 w8x and is, naturally, based on the biochemists’ view of the SHBG molecule in the 1990s; but
the view of this molecule has changed, step by step, in recent years
8. Vermeulen A, Verdonck L, Kaufman JM. A critical evaluation of simple methods for the
estimation of free testosterone in serum. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1999;84:3666–72.
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