My Reconstruction

[keninottawa]

Hello all,

Some of you are familiar with me through my nolvadex restart thread. I'm a 22-year old secondary hypo. To sum up my history, I was diagnosed with hypogonadism a few years ago after having overtrained for distance running and lost a bunch of weight. Essentially I was in an anoretic condition, which shocked my HPTA into submission. I saw an endocrinologist, who commenced me on TRT. I adopted a healthy lifestyle and through diet and weight training regained the weight. I continue to weight train and I have ceased doing aerobics.

At any rate, I was displeased with my TRT after learning that I may have been put on the treatment arbitrarily without any intervention into discovering why I was hypogonadic in the first place. I voluntarily ceased TRT just over a year ago. This winter, I decided to try out a nolvadex cycle (20 mg/day) to see if I could activate my HPTA. After a month, my T increased significantly, but LH and FSH remained the same. After two months, T dropped and LH and FSH remained the same. I am now wondering if I have a problem with my pituitary (I had an MRI during TRT, and that turned up negative).

I feel as though I am on the brink of discovering just what is wrong with me and being able to intervene and regain a healthy HPTA. I'm suspecting a few possibilities:

Adrenal fatigue: my energy levels fluctuate but tend to be low-normal. I also have low-normal BP. I hope my weight training and coffee-drinking isn't overstressing my adrenals! I've also been battling constipation since about the time I began TRT, and I'm wondering whether my thyroid levels are sensitive to my adrenal output.

Hypopituitarism: my pituitary hormones haven't responded to the nolvadex, but I am going to try to increase the dosage to 30 mg/day for a short period to see if they'll kick in. Also, I recall when I began TRT being told of low GH levels.

I don't want to seek help from an endocrinologist just yet since I can never seem to find one who addresses the core of the hormonal imbalance. I want to treat my symptoms naturally and slowly regain my balance. I'm young, resilient and very optimistic about my health. There are weeks and days when I feel much better, and days when I feel not so good, but I'm on an overall upward trend.

I'm curious about a couple of things:

DHEA: some of my last panels with an endo showed lowish DHEA levels. Could I take 25 mg per day and see if it improves my adrenal situation?

Caffeine: I have two cups of coffee per day, but (aside from making me happy) I find it doesn't particularly affect me in a physiological way. Could this be contributing to my hormonal problems?

5-HTP: What is the consensus about this supplement? Could an increase in serotonin and an eventual increase in thyroid hormones improve my HPTA function?

Tribulus: Really... Does it increase LH levels?

Any other input that you folks have would be very helpful! I'm quite ready to shake off my HPTA imbalance and regain some youthful vitality. I'm confident that over time, I can reconstruct myself in a natural and healthful manner.

Thanks,

- Ken

[coz]

It's interesting your LH & FSH levels never changed, I spose first up - are you 100% sure your novladex is legit ? Is it a pharmacy tablet or liquid research chem ? Did you get it from a reliable source ?

For Adrenals, I also suspected mine, and have been supplementing with Adrenal Cortical Extracts and about 4-5gms Vit C per day, calcium, pantothenic acid, & magnesium and a few others (As per James Wilsons book - Adrenal Fatigue, The 21st century Stress Syndrome)

I've only been doing this a week, and already feel alot better. I also just had blood tests done & my TT had jumped to 18.8nmol/L - it had been stuck at 14-15 for months no matter how high my LH went. I've also added at 2-4 full eggs a day to my diet for cholesterol, as all hormones are made from that and mine is always low.

I tried DHEA-S and pregnenolone first for a week & felt like it was affecting my estrogen, so have currently dropped them. So you may want to try the above before adding them.

As for 5-HTP, I see no harm in supplementing it. I currently take100mg a day - and think it helps.

[wildfox]

coz: what brand of "Adrenal Cortical Extracts"?

Did you have to slowly build up the Vitamin C? Any problem with "the runs" because of such a high dose?

[keninottawa]

Coz, thanks for the advice. I concur about eggs -- they're a staple in my diet.

I received my Nolvadex from a place called AnabolicShop. It is a pharmacy tablet, and I'm 95% certain that it is legit. My first blood test on Nolvadex showed significantly higher T than when I was off.

What dosages are you using for the minerals that you've listed? I have tried ZMA in the past and haven't noticed any significant change in the physiological effects of my hormone balance.

As for the DHEA, I'd like to try it but it isn't certified by Health Canada as an OTC medication.
My last E2 test showed up below range -- could DHEA improve that?

[coz]

Wildfox, I'm currently using 2 a day of these (1 morning, 1 night)
http://www.iherb.com/store/ProductDe...&pid=ARG-50460

I notice they also have a different type available (not sure what the difference is);
http://www.iherb.com/store/ProductDe...&pid=ARG-50530

I saw a recommendation on one of the boards for these, I've got them too - but havent tried them yet (they seem a weaker dose);
http://nutri-meds.com/nutri-meds-adrenal.html

Yes I built up the vit-C over a few days, first day or 2 I got the runs slightly - but nothing too bad. Now all is fine.

Ken,
What was your LH, FSH before you started novladex ? Did it go up to 3 afterwards ? Its strange because novladex increases T by increasing LH, yet did your LH ever increase ? What is the brand of your novladex and what does the box look like ?

Here's a list of everything I'm taking;

- Adrenal Extract 2 x 300mg (split morning/night) from the first link above
- 4-5 gms Vit C (split in 4-5 doses with meals)
- 1500mg pantothenic acid (split 3 doses with meals)
- 1000mg calcium citrate (split 3 doses with meals)
- 3gms fish oil (split 2 doses)
- 1 x B complex (morning)
- 100mg 5-HTP (morning)
- 10,000iu vit A (at night)
- 400mg magnesium citrate (before bed)
- 50mg zinc (before bed)
- 10mg Novladex (before bed)

DHEA-s is also not available where I am, but you can order it easily online;
http://www.iherb.com/store/ProductDe...&pid=CLF-01670

I'm not sure if DHEA-s will help - others seem to report benefits. I'm going to try taking it again after I have been stable on what I am doing a month - if still feeling good & levels are still up.

[KidCapriB]

that's almost impossible that your testosterone levels rose but your LH and FSH stayed the same. The reason why nolvadex works is by blocking estrogen essentially telling your pituitary to make your balls produce more LH and FSH hence more testosterone. So it makes almost no sense your T would rise without your LH or FSH rising... Find a better endo that might put you on a nice HPTA Recovery cycle because he could ensure that the nolva you would be getting would be legit. Also try clomid, just to give it a shot before you assume anything. After going on a cycle of legit clomid or nolva from your doc you can really determine if there is a pituitary problem or not because LH and FSH should definately rise when on either of those medications. GOOD LUCK BRO!

[keninottawa]

KidCapri, I have discussed both nolvadex and clomid with two endos and my GP, and all three have refused to give them to me.

Coz, my LH and FSH were both at 3.0 before and during my nolvadex run. I'm doubting the efficacy of either my lab (I use the free lab service through my GP here in Canada) or that of my Nolvadex. It is the brand name "Cytotam"; didn't come in a box. At any rate, my T levels did increase markedly after beginning whatever it is that came in the little envelope from overseas, so I'm somewhat perplexed.

Just curious, which of the supplements that you listed would you most recommend for adrenal support? I don't think I have a bad case of adrenal fatigue, but I would like to try a couple of products to see if they have any physiological benefit to me.

Thanks again!

[eeso]

When I was on TRT I tried this for adrenal: Fatigued to Fantastic - Adrenal Stress End
http://www.iherb.com/store/ProductDe...&pid=EMT-04035

It has adrenal cortex extracts and some special adrenal polypeptide fractions among other things.

I don't know exactly what it did, but I went from having no libido and ED to having absolutely uncontrollable urge for sex. I'm talking hardcore NEEDING it 6 times a day and it's all I could think about - I got no work done. Only trouble was that the effects would only last a week or 2 then dissapear, so I'd have to stop taking it a couple of weeks and then take it again I guess it was the adrenal cortex extracts in it.

If I took it arvo/night I couldn't sleep though.

I think the entire Fatigued to Fantastic range is likely to be very good - I might try the sleep formula soon.

[coz]

If your LH & FSH were 3 before, and during the novladex, then I think either the labs are incorrect or your novladex is bunk. I would definately look at getting some from somewhere else to try before thinking it doesnt work. I find it very strange that that havent moved at all on novladex.

If you want to try something for Adrenal support, I would recommend the Adrenal Extracts & 4-5 gm of VitC per day first. And see if that helps. Are you currently taking any vitamins/supplements ?

[keninottawa]

I take a multi and I cycle on and off of creatine monohydrate for my training. Otherwise, I currently use no other supplements (unless you consider whey protein a supplement). In the past I have tried ZMA, plain zinc and magnesium, and other OTC anti-e's. I don't think they did very much, although my overall sense of well-being skyrocketed when I was taking Korean Red Ginseng at about 3,000 mg per day.

What about Tribulus? Will a high-quality Tribulus product have any effects on LH production?

I'm beginning a new package of nolvadex from a different source this week. We'll see if I feel any different!

Thanks again everyone!

[keninottawa]

Right, well, I received my 5-HTP and "Adrenal Stress End" in the mail today. I'll start them right away. If I feel more energy, I can assume that my adrenals were somewhat overworked. If my constipation improves, I can assume that my serotonin was low.

As for my Nolvadex cycle, I am still using 30 mg per day. I feel better and better every day. I hope that the lab work I have done in the next week or two is positive! Also, I'm waiting for a new shipment of Nolvadex to arrive; I'm down to my last nine tabs and it hasn't come yet.