My treatment for hypogonadism, please comment on the protocol

[clocker]

ok first a bit of background. Bascially my body has not been the same since the third and last course of steorids I did. The third course of nandrolone deca at 275mg per week was cut short at 4 weeks. This was all finished 14 months ago.

I was left with small testicles, no erections, penile atrophy. My testicles had since started to produce T on their own but they were still small and my numbers were small for my age and only just normal.

I had since done one course of hCG 500iU per week for 3 weeks about 2 months ago with doses split up into bi-weekly of 250iU. I took saw palmetto for my prostate and shedding hair whilst on hCG.

Here are my labs before taking hCG: http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/men-s...134257942.html

Now this has left me with unsatisfactory results, my testicles did not change much in size if at all and I still don't get erections like I did. I get morning ones, but I haven't dared test it out on a woman yet.

I have since read Dr. Scaly's article on clomid, nolvadex treatment and have come up with my own "cycle" to treat myself. I was told by and endo that all will come good by doing nothing, but this has not been the case.

So here goes:

hCG

Weeks 1-3
250IU's x 4 a week for 3 weeks (i.e. 1000iU's per week. I can get more hCG to make 1500IU's per week. Does anyone recommend this? I really need to pump up the boys but don't want to desensitise)

Weeks 1-11
Nolvadex 20mg per day

Weeks 4-10
Clomid 50mg twice per day - didn't want to do clomid with hCG and in one of the protocols clomid was used with Nolvadex.

Week 5-13.5
Arimidex 0.5mg EOD - want the Arimidex to bring estrogen back down after Nolvadex stops

Weeks 1-11
Finasteride 2mg per day - I have some persistent shedding still from the steroid cycles and don't want to aggrevate it with these hormone changing drugs. I am also using a 5% spiro topical on my receding hairline.

[eeso]

Don't take finasteride it will potentially make things a lot worse for you

[clocker]

ok I have decided that I went a little overboard and will cut the finasteride as advised. I'll use Saw Palmetto instead.

I will also leave out the Arimidex as if I taper the Nolvadex properly over 4-5 weeks then this should not be needed right?

The clomid was perhaps overkill also, I did see Nolvadex and clomid used together though in a protocol.

So I am left with hCG and Nolvadex. Sweet. Thanks esso

[jinxie1]

Clocker, are you looking to restart? If not, why not just hCG plus Adex?

[clocker]

What dosage on the Arimidex? 0.5mg per day?

Arimidex is better than nolvadex because it will kill the circulating E2 right? Instead of Nolvadex just blocking E2 right?

I am trying to follow Dr. Scaly and he used SERMs rather than AIs.

But I am open to suggestions from you.

[clocker]

[b]Does anyone think that my hCG is enough because I can add another 500iU's (in 250 IU daily doses)

[JanSz]

Post all blood tests that you have for that last 2 years.
Name, value, units, range, name of laboratory.

[clocker]

The only other blood tests I have had done tested for LH and T total and I was always sneaking into the bottom of the reference range, being 25 this is not normal. The last test I posted above was encouraging, but I really want to pump my balls up more with some hCG and get my erections back to how they were. I can get a hard on and come and all that, but I don't get spontaneous erections any more. My ball size (within the normal range now according to a doctor) and erection are more the reason for the PCTR than anything.

Will hCG as I stand to do it make any difference again I hope....

[JanSz]

Originally Posted by clocker

The only other blood tests I have had done tested for LH and T total and I was always sneaking into the bottom of the reference range, being 25 this is not normal. The last test I posted above was encouraging, but I really want to pump my balls up more with some hCG and get my erections back to how they were. I can get a hard on and come and all that, but I don't get spontaneous erections any more. My ball size (within the normal range now according to a doctor) and erection are more the reason for the PCTR than anything.

Will hCG as I stand to do it make any difference again I hope....

After you decide that you are done with Clomid, Nolva and Finasteride and Arimidex
you may want to change to every day
500iu HCG

stay on it for 6 weeks then have a blood draw.
Do following tests, preferably at Quest Diagnostics.
Estradiol, Ultrasensitive, LC/MS/MS (30289X)
Estradiol, Free, LC/MS/MS (36169X)
Testosterone, Free, Bio/Total (LC/MS/MS)
Dihydrotestosterone, Free, Serum (36168X)
----------------
If you cannot do testing at Quest, let me know I will try to help.

[clocker]

I can get 4500IU's hCG total on the script I grabbed. So I can do your protocol for 3 weeks, not 6.

Also isn't it prudent to keep single hCG injections to 250IU ED so as not to densensitise the leydig cells??

I can get tested but my doctor will see it and not be too impressed with me doing all of this on the sly. He doesnt know i got a hCG script from another doctor. And the other chems are "research".

[jinxie1]

You dont need 500 per day; that's WAY too much. I'd be aiming for half that much (even less -- 200 IUs ED, or 400 IUs EOD), with .25 of Adex EOD, to start. I think you need a doctor to be guiding you.

[clocker]

^The doctors here know less about than I do.
ok so here goes,

I ordered Arimidex, Clomid and Nolvadex. 1 bottle each.

I will have 4500IU's of hCG,
This will be split up into 250IU doses 6 times per week for 3 weeks.

0.25mg Arimidex EOD Starting with the hCG. Stop taking Arimidex one week after Nolvadex stops.

20mg Nolva starting 3 days before the hCG stops for 40 days

50mg Clomid for 30 days starting on the last day of hCG.