Need some help - Doctors are dismissing low test problem.

[Minimal Resent]

To make this short...I am 27 years old and in otherwise good health except for having low free testosterone (0.92ng/dL) and total (315ng/dL) and having lower HDL cholesterol. Though I suspect the latter is correlated with the test findings).

And my cortisol was read @ 13.8 at 12:30pm and thyroid tests came back normal. In the past 5 weeks I have been to many different doctors including specialists and all say no to TRT/HRT and what sucks is that I cannot keep going to such specialists as I have limited insurance (through the school I attend). In the process of these doctors and specialists I have been told (again) I have ADD-I and Dysthymia. One doctor who told me that went as far to say the combination of those disorders can be causing me to have lower test and thinks the Adderall will help raise through DA and NE pathways. My understanding of that was anything causing such a rampant NE release such as an amphetamine would do the opposite.

My complaints are as follows (these have been progressing for 7-8 yrs and I am 27 now):

- Low energy levels, low motivation, general fatigue
- Inattentive, poor concentration and focus
- Low to nonexistent libido
- Persistent low grade sadness/negativity

So, hence the question, what do I do or what can I do?

Thanks in advance for any help.

[zkt]

Originally Posted by Minimal Resent

To make this short...I am 27 years old and in otherwise good health except for having low free testosterone (0.92ng/dL) and total (315ng/dL) and having lower HDL cholesterol. Though I suspect the latter is correlated with the test findings).

And my cortisol was read @ 13.8 at 12:30pm and thyroid tests came back normal. In the past 5 weeks I have been to many different doctors including specialists and all say no to TRT/HRT and what sucks is that I cannot keep going to such specialists as I have limited insurance (through the school I attend). In the process of these doctors and specialists I have been told (again) I have ADD-I and Dysthymia. One doctor who told me that went as far to say the combination of those disorders can be causing me to have lower test and thinks the Adderall will help raise through DA and NE pathways. My understanding of that was anything causing such a rampant NE release such as an amphetamine would do the opposite.

My complaints are as follows (these have been progressing for 7-8 yrs and I am 27 now):

- Low energy levels, low motivation, general fatigue
- Inattentive, poor concentration and focus
- Low to nonexistent libido
- Persistent low grade sadness/negativity

So, hence the question, what do I do or what can I do?

Thanks in advance for any help.

I didnt spend much time determining if I agree with what your doctors say re. ADT so I cant say anything about that.
But a LOT of doctors more or less follow the Endo guidelines concerning the Dx of HRT. There is a sticky to the guide at the top of the page. Pretty much sets the bottom cut off at 300ng/dl. So you lose by 15 points. I was 25 over.
What i did was study the biochemistry and the usuall treatment protocols , and then initate my own treatment. Protocols were found mostly here and the theory on the internet in online texts, and in endo and anti-aging journals. Testosterone, hcg and arimidex can be found in the advertizers on this site and elsewhere on the net.
Or you migh pay a lot of money for an online HRT doctor or one of them often mentioned here.. Or keep shopping. I hear that DO`s and anti-aging Drs are generally more liberal in their Dx of HRT.
If you are willing to take responsibility for your own treatment program you really should be prepared to spend enought time to fully understand the problem. There are legal risks to be taken into consideration as well. But so far this seems to be minimal and stable if approached with intelligence.
GL

[Minimal Resent]

Thank you very much for the insight. I am just a little weary of getting into such ventures via the internet. Maybe after reading some more and looking into things deeper I can find some sort of trust in that. Until then I am going to continue to read whatever I can on this topic as it concerns my well-being.

Peace it.

[techlogik]

Originally Posted by Minimal Resent

Thank you very much for the insight. I am just a little weary of getting into such ventures via the internet. Maybe after reading some more and looking into things deeper I can find some sort of trust in that. Until then I am going to continue to read whatever I can on this topic as it concerns my well-being.

Peace it.

Adventures via the Internet? Not sure what that means. Then why are you on a Internet forum asking questions? Oxymoron to me personally. Any doctors mentioned here are licensed and practicing physicians in their respective State. Hence, as good as any other, and in their specialty, considered some of the best in the Country.

But hey, if you want to keep jerking around with your local idiot doctors with backward 70s thinking..be our guest.

Or, you can do what many of us have done, taken our well-being into our own hands and have become proactive. If that means flying half-way across the Country to see a doctor and get somebody who actually listens, cares and is willing to treat you..then that is what we have done.

Otherwise, you will be going in this endless cycle of doctors who don't care and think they have all the answers or don't want to treat you properly.

Good luck..

[zkt]

I think he was refering to what I said previously and was taking about taking the entire matter into his own hands as a few here have done.

[Minimal Resent]

Originally Posted by zkt

I think he was refering to what I said previously and was taking about taking the entire matter into his own hands as a few here have done.

I was just about to respond to and saw your statement, zkt, thank you for me not having to waste time explaining myself. I wonder if people have forgotten what inflection is.

[Kingston pt]

Try and get Preferred Provider organization insurance a (PPO), because it will cover doctors out of network. Go to Dr. Crisler you can look him up on-line. Or do it yourself. Best ways.

[Minimal Resent]

I've already begun checking around for more doctors including anti-aging doctors but none seem to be around my parts -- Buffalo, NY. I checked out this world health site and dentists and cardiac surgeons came up.

So...I'll keep on checking and I'm getting a more extensive panel done on Fri or Sat. Maybe that will shed some more light onto whatever is going down.

In the meantime, given my age what would be considered normal even optimal for total and free T levels?

[BrianEE93]

You might give the doctor on this list a call and see if he knows anything about HRT. I have started seeing an Environmental Medicine doctor and he is great but out-of-network.

NewYork Referable Physicians :: The American Academy of Environmental Medicine (AAEM)

[Kingston pt]

There is a sticky at the top of forum called : Table of T Levels By 10-Year Age Group (Appendix from David Z's TRT Primer). You should prob. be about 700-800, but it varies from person to person.

[JanSz]

Originally Posted by Minimal Resent

I've already begun checking around for more doctors including anti-aging doctors but none seem to be around my parts -- Buffalo, NY. I checked out this world health site and dentists and cardiac surgeons came up.

So...I'll keep on checking and I'm getting a more extensive panel done on Fri or Sat. Maybe that will shed some more light onto whatever is going down.

In the meantime, given my age what would be considered normal even optimal for total and free T levels?

Asking for TotalTestosterone level is asking for trouble.
Age is also not important if you want to figure out your goal.
The only important value is
BioAvailableTestosterone (BAT).
Some people are not able to get BAT from Quest Diagnostics,
good approximation is FreeT
---------------------------------------------
Asking laboratory to check for FreeT is an instance of asking for another trouble.
Most/all labs have their FreeT wrong.
You want to know two values
TotalTestosterone and SHBG
and
you can figure out the correct FreeT by yourself, using dr Shippen's chart.
post #41
Jan's BloodTest April13/2007 - Page 2
on that chart you want to have
FreeT~300
but definitely nothing less than 160
-------------------------------------------------
Test at Quest Diagnostics gives both of this values (BAT & FrreT) (they are calculated not assayed values)
Testosterone, Free, Bio/Total (LC/MS/MS)

[onewaypockets]

Hi,

All of the things you describe...

- Low energy levels, low motivation, general fatigue
- Inattentive, poor concentration and focus
- Low to nonexistent libido
- Persistent low grade sadness/negativity

All of these including the very low (for your age) testosterone also describe low thyroid. Do you run a low body temperature (like 96.5, 97, etc)?? Thyroid controls everything in your body from toenail growth to your nuts producing testosterone. Also if you have anemia thyroid is very very often whats going on.

Dr. Mariano told me personally that 80% of the patients seeing for depression have low thyroid, he corrects this first and often it fixes it. Same with testosterone. With me my testosterone never came back, he has me on T shots. My total T was 275 when he started me on shots.

Hope this helps

OWP

[onewaypockets]

Oh, and I believe that total T for your age should be around 800. Free T at the top of range. After treating me my total T is in the high 700's and free T is top of range.

A book that you may find very useful is this one...

Hypothyroidism: The Unsuspected Illness by Dr. Broda Barnes. You can buy a used copy at Amazon for $4.99 plus shipping. He has dealt with patients with exactly your symptoms for 50 years.

OWP

[zkt]

Originally Posted by onewaypockets

Hi,

All of the things you describe...

- Low energy levels, low motivation, general fatigue
- Inattentive, poor concentration and focus
- Low to nonexistent libido
- Persistent low grade sadness/negativity

All of these including the very low (for your age) testosterone also describe low thyroid. Do you run a low body temperature (like 96.5, 97, etc)?? Thyroid controls everything in your body from toenail growth to your nuts producing testosterone. Also if you have anemia thyroid is very very often whats going on.



Dr. Mariano told me personally that 80% of the patients seeing for depression have low thyroid, he corrects this first and often it fixes it. Same with testosterone. With me my testosterone never came back, he has me on T shots. My total T was 275 when he started me on shots.

Hope this helps

OWP

He doesnt stick to the statistical test results in making the hypothyroidism Dx does he? Disregard the leading question part.

[onewaypockets]

Originally Posted by zkt

He doesnt stick to the statistical test results in making the hypothyroidism Dx does he? Disregard the leading question part.

I am not sure what you are asking here....not clear at all. Care to clarify?

OWP