New Labs are In.

[pmgamer18]

The only thing I changed was to lower my does of DHEA from 25 mgs. 2x's a day to one.

My Armour was 2.5 grains on my last test this test I am doing 3 grains.

I told my Dr. I am not on 90 mgs. of Armour but doing 3 grains. He said OK but we need to watch it in the next few months to be sure ft4 and ft3 don't go to high.
My tests are as follows doing 3 grains and I feel like I need to go higher on Armour.

FT4 = 0.88 the last time it was tested it was 0.86 range 0.71 to 2.23 ng/dl at this lab on 11-16-06 I was doing 2.5 grains of Armour.

FT3 = 3.17 up from 3.00 range 1.71 to 3.71 pg/ml.

T3 total = 1.26 up from 1.23 range 0.58 to 1.59 ng/ml.

T4 total = 7.04 up from 6.76 range 5.0 to 12.0 ug/dl

My DHEA = 326 down from 574H range 80 to 560 ug/dl.

Total Testosterone = 636 down from 1252H range 181 to 758 ng/dl.

Free Testosterone = 18.9 down from 31.8H range 7.2 to 23 pg/ml.

All we did was lower the HCG shots down from 400 IU's to 250 IU's.
I do a testosterone shot every 3 days and the HCG the 2 days each in between.

My SHBG come in low 22 range 23 to 38 nmol/L.

I am starting to feel better having more energy and starting to walk again on my tread mill.

My lab posted a new range for men over 49 for total and Free T.

[Vforcer2]

Looks like you are getting things in better balance.

FT4 will always be less on Armour due to the ratio in th tablet. The only way to get that ratio up would be to start taking T4 in addition to Armour.

I didn't see the almighty E2 anywhere. That is the one you always had issues with. What was it?

[pmgamer18]

Originally Posted by Vforcer2

Looks like you are getting things in better balance.

FT4 will always be less on Armour due to the ratio in th tablet. The only way to get that ratio up would be to start taking T4 in addition to Armour.

I didn't see the almighty E2 anywhere. That is the one you always had issues with. What was it?

Yes Quest did not do it so we took blood again to day. It will now come back low because I took a .5mgs pill this morning.
I just talked to Val at STTM and she said to keep going up on the armour I have been holding at 3 grains now for 5 weeks. My FT4 was .91 before I started on Armour go figure.

[magic8989]

Good to see your labs are getting better and that you are feeling better. Pretty soon you may be able to start lifting some weights and packing on some muscle eh?

[FYI777]

Why you feel you need more armour? Basal temp. readings low?

DHEA effects thyroid by the way, as you probably know, increases the conversion of T4 to T3 I believe.

[kincaiddave]

Phil - Glad you're feeling better! Keep going on that tread mill and push yourself as much as you can. You know your limits I'm sure.

Sounds like you got more proof that your testis respond well to the HCG. Is there any other way to explain the drop in T level? The drop in range given by your lab is interesting. My first inclination would be to not pay a whole lot of attention to it.

Are you thinking about going back up some on the HCG or T injections?

I'm also thinking that your E2 will be down. Marianco made the first post that I remember to mention that HCG raises aromatase levels. That, plus there are so many posts that tell of HCG raising their E2 levels. I'm thinking that your E2 would be down even if you hadn't taken the .5mg this morning.

Five weeks is long enough at 3 grains isn't it? Have you decided to go up on the dose?

[HeadDoc]

glad these look so good for you.

[DAVID]

Originally Posted by pmgamer18

The only thing I changed was to lower my does of DHEA from 25 mgs. 2x's a day to one.

My Armour was 2.5 grains on my last test this test I am doing 3 grains.

I told my Dr. I am not on 90 mgs. of Armour but doing 3 grains. He said OK but we need to watch it in the next few months to be sure ft4 and ft3 don't go to high.
My tests are as follows doing 3 grains and I feel like I need to go higher on Armour.

FT4 = 0.88 the last time it was tested it was 0.86 range 0.71 to 2.23 ng/dl at this lab on 11-16-06 I was doing 2.5 grains of Armour.

FT3 = 3.17 up from 3.00 range 1.71 to 3.71 pg/ml.

T3 total = 1.26 up from 1.23 range 0.58 to 1.59 ng/ml.

T4 total = 7.04 up from 6.76 range 5.0 to 12.0 ug/dl

My DHEA = 326 down from 574H range 80 to 560 ug/dl.

Total Testosterone = 636 down from 1252H range 181 to 758 ng/dl.

Free Testosterone = 18.9 down from 31.8H range 7.2 to 23 pg/ml.

All we did was lower the HCG shots down from 400 IU's to 250 IU's.
I do a testosterone shot every 3 days and the HCG the 2 days each in between.

My SHBG come in low 22 range 23 to 38 nmol/L.

I am starting to feel better having more energy and starting to walk again on my tread mill.

My lab posted a new range for men over 49 for total and Free T.

In europe many good doctor give with armour some thyroxine. I have myself hypothyroidism since 12 year's and try many protocole. The problem with armour you don't have an optimun T4 level and never enough brain T3 . IN fact, the only way to increase brain T3 is too have high enough T4. The high T3 from armour doesn't work well for this purpose.

The bauer study help to understand that, and now I feel better with 150 mch of levothyrox and only one grain of armour.

[marianco]

Originally Posted by pmgamer18

The only thing I changed was to lower my does of DHEA from 25 mgs. 2x's a day to one.

My Armour was 2.5 grains on my last test this test I am doing 3 grains.

I told my Dr. I am not on 90 mgs. of Armour but doing 3 grains. He said OK but we need to watch it in the next few months to be sure ft4 and ft3 don't go to high.
My tests are as follows doing 3 grains and I feel like I need to go higher on Armour.

FT4 = 0.88 the last time it was tested it was 0.86 range 0.71 to 2.23 ng/dl at this lab on 11-16-06 I was doing 2.5 grains of Armour.

FT3 = 3.17 up from 3.00 range 1.71 to 3.71 pg/ml.

T3 total = 1.26 up from 1.23 range 0.58 to 1.59 ng/ml.

T4 total = 7.04 up from 6.76 range 5.0 to 12.0 ug/dl

My DHEA = 326 down from 574H range 80 to 560 ug/dl.

Total Testosterone = 636 down from 1252H range 181 to 758 ng/dl.

Free Testosterone = 18.9 down from 31.8H range 7.2 to 23 pg/ml.

All we did was lower the HCG shots down from 400 IU's to 250 IU's.
I do a testosterone shot every 3 days and the HCG the 2 days each in between.

My SHBG come in low 22 range 23 to 38 nmol/L.

I am starting to feel better having more energy and starting to walk again on my tread mill.

My lab posted a new range for men over 49 for total and Free T.

It is interesting how low your Free T3 and Free T4 are given the approximately 180 mg a day of Armour Thyroid you are taking. I would wonder whether or not it is being absorbed well. I assume you take it on an empty stomach at least 20 minutes before breakfast.

Labs have interesting reference range differences. Quest has a range of Free T3 between 2.2 to 4.2 pg/ml.

In any case, once a person gets to 180 mg a day of Armour Thyroid, it becomes much more important to use physical signs and symptoms to gauge response than the lab test. Lab tests are useful. But physical signs and symptoms are more important. Particularly when some patients have thyroid resistance and the Free T3 can go to 5.0 and above in some yet they still are clinically hypothyroid. In this case, a physician can still go higher in dose with precautions.

One should also avoid having palpitations (excessively strong heart beats), a morning resting pulse over 90-100 beats a minute, and a morning axillary temperature greater than 98.6 degrees. This would mean that the thyroid dose is intolerable and one can get into serious problems if it is prolonged. Watching out for signs and symptoms of atrial fibrillation or congestive heart failure becomes important.

As one goes to higher doses, it becomes more important to go slowly - to allow the rest of the body to get use to the higher dose - e.g. the adrenal glands - which are stressed as the dose of thyroid goes higher.

Adrenal support becomes much more important as the dose gets higher. Often the limiting problem as adrenal fatigue - which sets in after long-term hypothyroidism. Both thyroid and adrenal glands often need to be treated simultaneously in order to reach an adequate thyroid dose to address hypothyroidism. The adrenal fatigue is the more difficult problem to solve. The response to treatment can be difficult to obtain.

[JanSz]

Originally Posted by pmgamer18

The only thing I changed was to lower my does of DHEA from 25 mgs. 2x's a day to one.

............
My DHEA = 326 down from 574H range 80 to 560 ug/dl.

I would go back to the old dose.
----

Total Testosterone = 636 down from 1252H range 181 to 758 ng/dl.

Free Testosterone = 18.9 down from 31.8H range 7.2 to 23 pg/ml.

All we did was lower the HCG shots down from 400 IU's to 250 IU's.
I do a testosterone shot every 3 days and the HCG the 2 days each in between.

My SHBG come in low 22 range 23 to 38 nmol/L.

I am starting to feel better having more energy and starting to walk again on my tread mill.

My lab posted a new range for men over 49 for total and Free T.

Originally Posted by pmgamer18

Yes Quest did not do it so we took blood again to day. It will now come back low because I took a .5mgs pill this morning.
I just talked to Val at STTM and she said to keep going up on the armour I have been holding at 3 grains now for 5 weeks. My FT4 was .91 before I started on Armour go figure.

Glad you feel better. Guessing, you need more Armour and extraT4.
Lower TT should make E2 management easier on you.
I am guessing, you may went bit too low on TT.

Since part of the test you are doing at Quest Diagnostics, any reason to not to do complete test there.
It would be much easier to compare FreeT and BioAvailable T with values Dr Shippen uses.
Specially their
Free, Bioavailable, and Total Testosterone
http://www.questdiagnostics.com/hcp/...rone.html?endo
their ranges are here.
http://www.questdiagnostics.com/hcp/.../Table%201.pdf
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About DIM, my guess, Indolplex is DIM only, since you do not like LEF DIM, possibly you may want to switch to the one Dr John is/was supporting, Dr Delgados. There is more ingredients there, I3C and othres, they may play a role after all..