New Labs In ?

[benrock]

27 yr old male , treated for low test with 2 tubes of testim per day , 3 months i have been on !!!

labs were taken 20 hrs after gel was applyed :

prolactin 12.2 2-18 ref
progesterone 0.6 < below 1.4 ref
t3 390 230 - 420 ref
Estradiol US 23 10 - 50 ref
b12 576 200- 1100 ref
folate, serum 21 > 5.4 ref
total Test 1041 H 260 - 1000 ref
free test % 2.8 H 1- 2.7 ref
free test 294.5 H 50 - 210 ref
zinc 9.6 9 - 14.7 ref
DHT 263 H 25- 75 ref
shbg 29 7-50 ref
igf-1 232 114-492 ref
insulin 3 < 17
TSH 3.56 .40 - 5.5 ref
T4 free 1.6 .8-1.8 ref
cholesterol 128 <200 ref
HDL 30 L > 40 ref
Triglycerides 129 < 150

all other labs were good , liver , kidneys , blood .

doc says my piss was to low in ph , it was 5.5 which was in range , but he said it wwas no good , and he said my triglicerides were high , but there in range ?

do you guys think my DHT is to high ?

what else do you guys think , I felt better when my test was lower for some reason, now i feel to anxouis and edgy ?

please let me know what you think , thanks guys

he gave me vitamin D drops , because i told him i get really sore while i work out and he said my cortisol is probaly high ?

and he gave me coral minerals to raise the ph in my urine ?

what do you think

[ASaxon]

Since your T, free T and DHT are all a little high you might think about cutting your T dose just a little bit. If you can drop your total T down maybe 100 to 200 pts you may find out that that is the proper dosage for you. I don’t know how you cut down Testim, can it come in a pump like Androgel? If so maybe a pump would be better since you have more control over adjusting the dose.

Your DHT seems quite a bit high and I don’t really know how to deal with that. I’ve hard of some people taking supplements for it but I don’t know much about it. I think if you were able to cut your DHT through supplements that your T would go higher so if you do take something to reduce DHT you may need to cut your T dose a little as well. You should probably only do one thing at a time though. Changing too much at once can make it impossible to know what med/dose change caused what blood level change. There are some good DHT threads on this board.

[coz]

I would agree, if you lower your dose of Test, you may feel better & also find that your DHT will lower too. As it is converted from test in the first place.

[benrock]

my doctor says thats fine , but like i said before he hands out test like it was asprin

do ill cut down to 1 1/2 tubes , and see how i feel

[benrock]

my prostate was .6 out of 0-4 so thats good right > started at .4 before testim

[coz]

Originally Posted by benrock

my doctor says thats fine , but like i said before he hands out test like it was asprin

do ill cut down to 1 1/2 tubes , and see how i feel

Yeah - do that for about 2-4 weeks, see how you feel, and then get some more blood work done to see where you are.

Originally Posted by benrock

my prostate was .6 out of 0-4 so thats good right > started at .4 before testim

Yeah that's good

[pmgamer18]

Originally Posted by benrock

my doctor says thats fine , but like i said before he hands out test like it was asprin

do ill cut down to 1 1/2 tubes , and see how i feel

I was on Testim and doing 10 geams but my levels never went over 650 and for me this is way to low I need my levels up over 800 better at 1,000. I say leave your dose alone. You have not been on TRT that long and you will find that your test levels are not that accurate for one blood test to the other. I get my blood tested every 4 to 6 weeks and never have seen the same reading two tests in a row. If you feel good don't change anything. My last first blood test after starting on HCG was 1138 and I felt dam good the best in 21 yrs. on TRT. I see this a lot where men are trying to keep up with there blood test results when they should be just trying to see what makes them feel the best. My DHT was the high for a long time and my Dr. felt that it was not a problem. When I started on Indlolpex/DIM to keep my E2 down it brought my DHT down. Your E2 looks good do you take anything to keep it that good. If not you might want to try doing some Zinc/Copper for a start this is good for your Testis and helps keep E's in check. Don't do more then 50 mgs. a day and try to get 2 mgs. of copper with that.
Phil

[ASaxon]

Phil,

I don't want to seem bold here because you are way more experienced than I on TRT. So I'll just say I would agree with you as to not adjust his TRT dose except that he said he wasn’t feeling well at that dose. He said, “I felt better when my test was lower for some reason, now i feel to anxouis and edgy ?” Since his TT, fT and DHT are all elevated above normal I don’t think it’s unreasonable for him to cut his dose a little to see if he feels better. His levels might be too high for him. I was going to recommend DIM but, as you pointed out, his E2 wasn’t elevated so I don’t think he should take any for fear of he E2 dropping too low. I know Propetia (used to prevent hair loss) is suppose to block T conversion to DHT but I don’t know enough about it to recommend it. It might be something to look into but make sure a doctor is consulted.

[pmgamer18]

The feeling anxouis and edgy could be anything I would stay the coarse until the next blood test. I have lost count on how many times I have lowed my dose only to get set back doing it. Now we never change anything on one reading. The bottom line is how he feels and if he dose not have the symptoms of Low T. I have had my T levels way up and never felt anxouis and edgy but have days that I feel like this and they are just bad days. My levels being to low cause me a great amount of fatigue I get up fatigued and go to bed fatigued. I feel depressed and panic. My libido goes to shit. The brain fog is bad. When I lower my dose in the old days because of one blood test it sets me back months. Hell I have done 400 mg. shots every month and felt dam good for the first 7 to 10 days that is a dam roller coaster ride but in them days that was how they did TRT.
Phil

[mranak]

Phil, thank you for sharing your experiences with Testim. However, we need to realize that different people respond differently. benrock obviously responds a bit differently to the Testim than yourself. His serum testosterone is above the range and DHT is over twice the top of normal. These are clearly good reasons for him to reduce his dosage.

benrock: I'm a bit concerned about your DHT levels. I think in a case like yours, SWALE might be apt to decrease the Testim but add daily hCG to the regimen.

How long after applying the the Testim did you get the blood test done?

[benrock]

i applieed 2 tubes of testim on thursday at 10am and the blood was taken on friday at 8 am so 22 hrs i guess ,

i started today with just 1 tube for now to lower dht , after blood work in 2 weeks ill go up or add hcg,

[benrock]

wierd thin is i got a call today from other doc , that i see that did blood work on tuesday of that week , he also did total testoesterone for some reason , test was taken also 24 hrs after gel, and he left a message saying my test was on the low side , so im confused , but 1 guy used enzo labs and the one that was high was quest , so im lost agian

[ASaxon]

Cutting your dose in half seems drastic considering the suggestions to edge your T levels down not nose dive them. I think before you do anything drastic like that I’d go get my blood tested one more time due to the inconsistencies. I’m a little confused at your story, doesn’t your doctor know about both tests? If so wouldn’t he want to repeat the tests to figure out which ones to believe. There’s a big difference between the two and since edgy-ness and anxiety can be caused by low T as well then I think you should find out before you do anything.

One thing I did was to find a lab that I trust to do my tests, I had two or three draws that come back consistent with one another, and I stick with that lab for all my tests. For me, my medical group lab uses ARUP as a backup to their internal lab. Now when I go in and have my blood tests done I ask that they send my test to ARUP and they do. I had too many problems with my medical groups internal labs. That way I know that whatever value comes back is at least going to have as little variability as possible. I’ve had three pre-TRT tests with them and they have all come back very close to each other so I trust them.

[pmgamer18]

Originally Posted by mranak

Phil, thank you for sharing your experiences with Testim. However, we need to realize that different people respond differently. benrock obviously responds a bit differently to the Testim than yourself. His serum testosterone is above the range and DHT is over twice the top of normal. These are clearly good reasons for him to reduce his dosage.

benrock: I'm a bit concerned about your DHT levels. I think in a case like yours, SWALE might be apt to decrease the Testim but add daily hCG to the regimen.

How long after applying the the Testim did you get the blood test done?

mranak I was using my levels as an example of my levels on 10 grams of Testim and a lot of others. If one would look at the insert that comes with Testim they would see the the levels benrock has from this test are very high and points to the labs error. After all he just posted that he cut the dose in half and then got a call for a different Dr. that did the test the same day and his levels came back low.

Benrock go back up to you dose wait 2 weeks and get the test redone. Cutting back on your dose that much will only set you back.

Even SWALE said he would send the same blood sample to 2 different labs and get 2 different test results.
Phil
Phil

[benrock]

yes but arnt my dht levels to high 263 25 -75 ref ?