noob question - Why just hCG when test will do?

[DaVinci2]

OK...if you are secondary, and hCG will help improve test production, is there any reason NOT to just do test as well? My doctor FINALLY is allowing me to self inject. He is telling me that if I want, he will also prescribe test cyp. I said no, but thinking about it, if using hCG is shutting down your htpa why not just do it with test? Any benifits? Drawbacks? Or is my logic on this fooked?

[JanSz]

Originally Posted by DaVinci2

OK...if you are secondary, and hCG will help improve test production, is there any reason NOT to just do test as well? My doctor FINALLY is allowing me to self inject. He is telling me that if I want, he will also prescribe test cyp. I said no, but thinking about it, if using hCG is shutting down your htpa why not just do it with test? Any benifits? Drawbacks? Or is my logic on this fooked?

Yes there may be a reason,
with HCG your testis may produce enough.
If you add additional T over what makes you body be in balance,
the additional T will convert to E2, DHT and what not, causing you problems that otherwise you would not have.

[farmerjohn]

I take both T-cyp and HCG because the HCG alone does not get my levels high enough. Of course if the HCG gets your levels high enough why do you want to add T-cyp to the mix? If HCG does not completely do it then I dont think adding T-cyp hurts anything. I can tell you I actually feel better on the days I am on the HCG and worse the days after the T-cyp injection. I'm not sure why exactly but have 2 theroies, first I may not be controlling E2 with the proper dose of DIM after the T-cyp injection yet (still experimenting with the right dosage), second the testicles may be producing some other substance that makes me feel better with more libido on the days I am taking it. Dr. Shippen has told me more than once there is always the possibility the testicles make something we have not discovered yet that effects libido so keeping them working is a good idea.

[JackBauer]

And let's not forget...

Adding exogenous testosterone without hCG, can significantly increase the likelihood that your testes will shrink. (Although not guaranteed this will happen)

[pmgamer18]

Lets face it Dr. John treats a lot of men and he says there are few men he treats that do just HCG. I am not going to even think about trying the just HCG what I am doing is working dam good. And HCG does make E2 fasting then doing T shot. You need to find the balance of your Gels or Shots with HCG. If your testis can only make so much T using HCG say 100 IU's 3 days a week and your doing 300 IU's 200 IU's is going to make E2. Now this is just an example but you get what I am saying. I was doing 50 mgs of Depo T every 3 days and 500 IU's the 2 days each in between. My total T levels were 900 lowering my HCG to 250 IU's form 500 my levels stayed the same yet I have less of a problem with E2.

[farmerjohn]

Phil is right on with that post. There is some optimal dose of HCG which will give you best bang for the buck. If you exceed it , your T will only rise slightly but E2 will rise rapidly from that point on as dose increases. You need to find the optimal dose of HCG for you. If at the optimal dose your T is not high enough then you need to add T shots or some other form of exogenous T. Unless you are young, its likely you will have to add exogenous T......the HCG alone will not be enough.

[DaVinci2]

Originally Posted by farmerjohn

Phil is right on with that post. There is some optimal dose of HCG which will give you best bang for the buck. If you exceed it , your T will only rise slightly but E2 will rise rapidly from that point on as dose increases. You need to find the optimal dose of HCG for you. If at the optimal dose your T is not high enough then you need to add T shots or some other form of exogenous T. Unless you are young, its likely you will have to add exogenous T......the HCG alone will not be enough.

My T levels doubled on the hCG stim test, so I'm secondary. The hCG makes me feel good, but I was only getting it once a week (Laws in Japan) and I was getting it at 750 units per shot. From next week I'll be able to self inject. My doctor is willing ot give me test as well, but I'm not sure I need it...I'm not sure where my t levels should be.

[farmerjohn]

Do you know what your SHBG level is? I have a chart that I can use to give you a target T level based on that. The other thing is I am treated by SHippen and his goal is to get you to 160 pg/mL free T in case that helps you. I remember your earlier posts. I'm glad to hear you were able to get the HCG afterall and especially that you will be able to self inject. I would inject HCG at least 3 times a week once you can do it yourself if you can. On the T question, go by how you feel too. If you feel good and your levels are reasonable then dont bother with it. If not, you would do the T once a week and the HCG the 3 or 4 days before the T shot. Or you can take the T twice a week and the HCG the 2 days before each T shot.

[JanSz]

Originally Posted by farmerjohn

Do you know what your SHBG level is? I have a chart that I can use to give you a target T level based on that. The other thing is I am treated by SHippen and his goal is to get you to 160 pg/mL free T in case that helps you. I remember your earlier posts. I'm glad to hear you were able to get the HCG afterall and especially that you will be able to self inject. I would inject HCG at least 3 times a week once you can do it yourself if you can. On the T question, go by how you feel too. If you feel good and your levels are reasonable then dont bother with it. If not, you would do the T once a week and the HCG the 3 or 4 days before the T shot. Or you can take the T twice a week and the HCG the 2 days before each T shot.

So Dr Shippen looks at SHBG and FreeT and then tell you what TotalT may work, right?
Is there anything that he advises on making SHBG lower?

[pmgamer18]

Originally Posted by farmerjohn

Do you know what your SHBG level is? I have a chart that I can use to give you a target T level based on that. The other thing is I am treated by SHippen and his goal is to get you to 160 pg/mL free T in case that helps you. I remember your earlier posts. I'm glad to hear you were able to get the HCG afterall and especially that you will be able to self inject. I would inject HCG at least 3 times a week once you can do it yourself if you can. On the T question, go by how you feel too. If you feel good and your levels are reasonable then dont bother with it. If not, you would do the T once a week and the HCG the 3 or 4 days before the T shot. Or you can take the T twice a week and the HCG the 2 days before each T shot.

I will take you up on this my SHBG is 22.