Personal Trainer

[bonangus]

Guys, I really value the advice on this forum so I would be very grateful to hear what you think.

Im 35 years old. Im a Personal Trainer. On average I do 7 sessions per day with my clients plus my own session. All out doors. My own session is usually fairly full on. The sessions with my clients (very rarely do I train with them) I am usually holding boxing focus pads and they are punching into them. As you can imagine can still give me a bit of a work out, plus I am always encouraging them and motivating them which Im sure uses up a bit of energy. Ive been Personal Training for 7 years now. I love it.
About 5 years ago, I got ED. Since then I have felt exhausted all the time and between training sessions have just gone to bed and "re charged". I have lost heaps of muscle but have stayed around the same weight as I have got weight around my tummy now which I never had. I have all the symptoms of Low Testosterone plus all the blood test results to confirm Low Testosterone. As well as that my liver function tests over the last 5 years have always come back with ast alt on the high side ???
Due to buying a house and having to make repayements every week and the fact that I have a heap of clients whos company I really enjoy and want the best for I have not had more than one week off work at a time. In the course of a year id probably have 3 or 4 weeks off and the rest of the time id be training clients.

My GP four weeks ago put me on testogel 10g.
I have felt like I have alot more energy being on the gel.
My questions are - Could my Low Test, Liver function, Adrenals all be due to my body just being completely over done on the training field and from all the weights in the weight room ??
Could my body repair itself if I took a complete rest for 6/12 months ?
Would my Test levels rise again as I am not constantly on the go training and "giving" to clients ???
And finally what would be the best way to stop the gel ? Would I need to do a PCT ?

Sorry this post is so long. Thanks in advance for any advice.

[eeso]

Hey mate, which city you in?

Very possible your body has just crapped out from over training.

Get everything checked - hormones, adrenals, thyroid, the whole shebang. Are you going to Dr. E?

Sounds like your PT business is very successful - perhaps it's time to get some trainers working for you and take a load off yourself?

[hardasnails1973]

Your over worked and body is over stress and probably have some form of adrenal fatique starting. SOme ZMA before bed should really help . It saved many people that I have known.

[JanSz]

Originally Posted by hardasnails1973

Your over worked and body is over stress and probably have some form of adrenal fatique starting. SOme ZMA before bed should really help . It saved many people that I have known.

HAN;
Would you agree to six months to a year of 30mg/day Cortef divided dose.
That should give his Adrenals some rest.

[JanSz]

Originally Posted by bonangus

Guys, I really value the advice on this forum so I would be very grateful to hear what you think.

Im 35 years old. Im a Personal Trainer. On average I do 7 sessions per day with my clients plus my own session. All out doors. My own session is usually fairly full on. The sessions with my clients (very rarely do I train with them) I am usually holding boxing focus pads and they are punching into them. As you can imagine can still give me a bit of a work out, plus I am always encouraging them and motivating them which Im sure uses up a bit of energy. Ive been Personal Training for 7 years now. I love it.
About 5 years ago, I got ED. Since then I have felt exhausted all the time and between training sessions have just gone to bed and "re charged". I have lost heaps of muscle but have stayed around the same weight as I have got weight around my tummy now which I never had. I have all the symptoms of Low Testosterone plus all the blood test results to confirm Low Testosterone. As well as that my liver function tests over the last 5 years have always come back with ast alt on the high side ???
Due to buying a house and having to make repayements every week and the fact that I have a heap of clients whos company I really enjoy and want the best for I have not had more than one week off work at a time. In the course of a year id probably have 3 or 4 weeks off and the rest of the time id be training clients.

My GP four weeks ago put me on testogel 10g.
I have felt like I have alot more energy being on the gel.
My questions are - Could my Low Test, Liver function, Adrenals all be due to my body just being completely over done on the training field and from all the weights in the weight room ??
Could my body repair itself if I took a complete rest for 6/12 months ?
Would my Test levels rise again as I am not constantly on the go training and "giving" to clients ???
And finally what would be the best way to stop the gel ? Would I need to do a PCT ?

Sorry this post is so long. Thanks in advance for any advice.

Jan's BloodTest April13/2007 - Page 2
post #44 blood test and other tests.
Start with blood test.

Ask Cpeil2 about your liver indicators.

When/if using, use Depo-Testosterone injections, e3d schedule plus HCG.
Transdermals are good for people who need to increase DHT.

[pmgamer18]

I wish you would have posted before going on the gel now it is dam hard to tell why your Testosterone levels are low. Still can you get a copy of all the test you had done and post tme here with the ranges and units. What I see a lot is a low graid infection, high estradiol levels, a liver problem, Thyroid or Cortisol low levels. And once you fix this your Testosterone levels will come back up. Top thing on the list that mess's everything up is a high level of estradiol this will lower your testosterone change your Cortisol and Thyroid levels. So it's best to treat this first then re test everything. I need to ask you don't have a lot of SOY in your Diet this will act like high estradiol and do the same thing.

Here is a list of tests that should have been done before you went on TRT and your Prostate should have been checked for Cancer first.

This is taken from Dr. John's site at All Things Male - Center for Men's Health in TRT: A Recipe for Success.

• Total Testosterone
• Bioavailable Testosterone (AKA "Free and Loosely Bound")
• Free Testosterone (if Bioavailable T is unavailable)
• DHT
• Estradiol (specify the Extraction Method, or "sensitive" assay for
males)
• LH
• FSH
• Prolactin
• Cortisol a morning test done about 8am. If this comes back low below 14 then do a Saliva test that checks you 4 x's in a day.
• Thyroid Panel do TSH, Free T3 and Free T4.
• CBC
• Comprehensive Metabolic Panel
• Lipid Profile
• PSA (if over 40)
* SHBG
* DHEA-S

It's not a problem to come off TRT if your not Secondary or Primary there is some time you will feel bad but you should come back to your old self if you find what is doing this and fix it.

Originally Posted by bonangus

Guys, I really value the advice on this forum so I would be very grateful to hear what you think.

Im 35 years old. Im a Personal Trainer. On average I do 7 sessions per day with my clients plus my own session. All out doors. My own session is usually fairly full on. The sessions with my clients (very rarely do I train with them) I am usually holding boxing focus pads and they are punching into them. As you can imagine can still give me a bit of a work out, plus I am always encouraging them and motivating them which Im sure uses up a bit of energy. Ive been Personal Training for 7 years now. I love it.
About 5 years ago, I got ED. Since then I have felt exhausted all the time and between training sessions have just gone to bed and "re charged". I have lost heaps of muscle but have stayed around the same weight as I have got weight around my tummy now which I never had. I have all the symptoms of Low Testosterone plus all the blood test results to confirm Low Testosterone. As well as that my liver function tests over the last 5 years have always come back with ast alt on the high side ???
Due to buying a house and having to make repayements every week and the fact that I have a heap of clients whos company I really enjoy and want the best for I have not had more than one week off work at a time. In the course of a year id probably have 3 or 4 weeks off and the rest of the time id be training clients.

My GP four weeks ago put me on testogel 10g.
I have felt like I have alot more energy being on the gel.
My questions are - Could my Low Test, Liver function, Adrenals all be due to my body just being completely over done on the training field and from all the weights in the weight room ??
Could my body repair itself if I took a complete rest for 6/12 months ?
Would my Test levels rise again as I am not constantly on the go training and "giving" to clients ???
And finally what would be the best way to stop the gel ? Would I need to do a PCT ?

Sorry this post is so long. Thanks in advance for any advice.

[bonangus]

Thanks for your advice guys.

Here are my blood test results Pmgamer18
Testosterone 7.1 Range 8-38
Free 29.6 Range 43-138
Oestradiol 69 Range less than 160
PSA 0.66 Range 0-2.5
LH 2.8 Range 2-8
SHBG 18 Range 10-50
FSH 3.5 Range 1-10
TSH 1.81 Range 0.3-4
Prolactin 316 Range 0-500


Salivary Hormone Test
DHEAS 9 Range 5-30
Cortisol
Morning - 8 Range 25
Evening - 1 Range 5-10
Night - Less than 1 Range Less than 5

This is after 2 weeks on testogel 5g
Liver Function
AST 68 Range 0-40
ALT 63 Range 0-40
Oestradiol 66 Range Less than 160
Testosterone 12.4 Range 8-38
Free Test 36.2 Range 43-38
DHEAS 4.5 Range 2.2 - 15.2
IGF-1 22 Range 15-64

The last two weeks I have been on 10g of Testogel. So have been on the Gel for a month now.

Thanks in advance. I really hope you guys can help me out.

[Matt Muscle]

Originally Posted by bonangus

Thanks for your advice guys.

Here are my blood test results Pmgamer18
Testosterone 7.1 Range 8-38
Free 29.6 Range 43-138
Oestradiol 69 Range less than 160
PSA 0.66 Range 0-2.5
LH 2.8 Range 2-8
SHBG 18 Range 10-50
FSH 3.5 Range 1-10
TSH 1.81 Range 0.3-4
Prolactin 316 Range 0-500


Salivary Hormone Test
DHEAS 9 Range 5-30
Cortisol
Morning - 8 Range 25
Evening - 1 Range 5-10
Night - Less than 1 Range Less than 5

This is after 2 weeks on testogel 5g
Liver Function
AST 68 Range 0-40
ALT 63 Range 0-40
Oestradiol 66 Range Less than 160
Testosterone 12.4 Range 8-38
Free Test 36.2 Range 43-38
DHEAS 4.5 Range 2.2 - 15.2
IGF-1 22 Range 15-64

The last two weeks I have been on 10g of Testogel. So have been on the Gel for a month now.

Thanks in advance. I really hope you guys can help me out.

Your cortisol level looks low for a morning level, plus your TSH could be suspect at 1.8
This could off course be a result of overtraining.
Did you have more than just one test for T before you went on exo T? It is very low, but it could just be a symptom of something else rather than a problem of its own. Not surprising that you are experiencing ED.
I would be investigating thyriod and adrenals first before supplementing with any more T.
As a PT myself in the past, 7 sessions in the day can be quite draining... plus if your training hard your self 4-5 times a week you could have exhausted your system.
A layoff from training for 2-3 months might be a good idea. Sounds drastic.. but your body may need the time to rebuild.

[pmgamer18]

Yes Matt Muscle I am with you on this look into your Thyroid and your adrenals are stress bad read this FAQ's on Adrenals and go to the Sicky "Adrenal Thread" it's dam long but read it Dr. M has a lot of input in this and talks about overtraining.
Stop The Thyroid Madness » ADRENALS FAQ–the most frequently asked questions
If you find you need to treat this best to do 5mgs of Cortef 4 x's a day this supports your Adrenals so they can heal this can take up to a yr.
Your LH and FSH are low also saying there could be something wrong with your Pituitary need an MRI on this to rule out a tumor also a bad blow to the head some time in your life can do this.
Here is a link on how I got started treating my Adrenals and Thyroid.
Real Thyroid Help Forums :: View topic - How I got started treating my Adrenals and Thyroid.

Originally Posted by Matt Muscle

Your cortisol level looks low for a morning level, plus your TSH could be suspect at 1.8
This could off course be a result of overtraining.
Did you have more than just one test for T before you went on exo T? It is very low, but it could just be a symptom of something else rather than a problem of its own. Not surprising that you are experiencing ED.
I would be investigating thyriod and adrenals first before supplementing with any more T.
As a PT myself in the past, 7 sessions in the day can be quite draining... plus if your training hard your self 4-5 times a week you could have exhausted your system.
A layoff from training for 2-3 months might be a good idea. Sounds drastic.. but your body may need the time to rebuild.

[bonangus]

Thank you both for your in put. Ill start now by checking out those links. PMGAMER18 do you think I could have secondary hypogonadism‏ ?

[pmgamer18]

Yes I do your Estradiol if it was high would make your LH and FSH low but your Estradiol is dam good in my units it's 18 pg/ml. You can have a bad head injury that dose some damage to your pituitary and your body will keep up but as you get older and push your self it can't keep up. Or you just got a tumor in the last yr. and I have yet to see one that was cancer.

If you can afford an MRI then get a ACTH Stim. test done this will show you if your lower cortisol levels are your adrenals or your pituitary. Here read this link on how it's done and what it shows.
Real Thyroid Help Forums :: View topic - My explaination of the ACTH stimulation test
Also you can post to Chris he helped me a lot I was sick on TRT for 23 yrs never feeling better until we found out I am Hypopituitary do to a head injury.

Originally Posted by bonangus

Thank you both for your in put. Ill start now by checking out those links. PMGAMER18 do you think I could have secondary hypogonadism‏ ?

[JanSz]

Originally Posted by bonangus

Thanks for your advice guys.

Here are my blood test results Pmgamer18
Testosterone 7.1 Range 8-38
Free 29.6 Range 43-138
Oestradiol 69 Range less than 160
PSA 0.66 Range 0-2.5
LH 2.8 Range 2-8
SHBG 18 Range 10-50
FSH 3.5 Range 1-10
TSH 1.81 Range 0.3-4
Prolactin 316 Range 0-500


Salivary Hormone Test
DHEAS 9 Range 5-30
Cortisol
Morning - 8 Range 25
Evening - 1 Range 5-10
Night - Less than 1 Range Less than 5

This is after 2 weeks on testogel 5g
Liver Function
AST 68 Range 0-40
ALT 63 Range 0-40
Oestradiol 66 Range Less than 160
Testosterone 12.4 Range 8-38
Free Test 36.2 Range 43-38
DHEAS 4.5 Range 2.2 - 15.2
IGF-1 22 Range 15-64

The last two weeks I have been on 10g of Testogel. So have been on the Gel for a month now.

Thanks in advance. I really hope you guys can help me out.

Testogel 5grams is not working for you.
10 grams is better but will not do the job.
Check your DHT status.
Unless you have very low DHT transdermals are not for you.
Use testosterone injections.
You bad absorption of Testogel may indicate thyroid problems.
Test
FreeT3
FreeT4
Suplement with Armour and Synthroid until both (FreeT3 and FreeT4) are on top of their ranges.
Armour works for everybody. Syntroid (T4) should make you more stable.
One should be better off if he could use T4 supplementation, some people cannot make T4-->T3 conversion and must depend on Armour.
T3 half-life hours
T4 half-life days

Your Prolactin may be high.

Use DHEA supplementations.
Use 2pills/day
DHEA Complete
100 mg 7-Keto® DHEA & 25 mg DHEA, 60 capsules
Item Catalog Number: 850
Dhea Complete, 60 Capsules
recheck, if not enough add
DHEA (Dehydroepiandrosterone) Free Base
100 mg, 60 capsules
Item Catalog Number: 883

Your adrenals need help.
Get Cortef 20mg or 30mg/day in divided dose.
Stay on it for 6 months to a year, then see if you can wean yourself off it.
Good long rest would be nice, but who can afford that.

Get good blood/urine testing as I mention on my post above.
=======================================
SHBG 18
Table on my post #40
Jan's BloodTest April13/2007 - Page 2
You need 135mg/week testosterone, use e3d schedule.
Use hcg Novarel 250iu on same sitting with Testosterone shot.
If you want to be more theoretical, do it day before T shot.
Get LiquiDex handy, do not use it now you may not need it.

[JanSz]

Originally Posted by JanSz

Use DHEA supplementations.
Use 2pills/day
DHEA Complete
100 mg 7-Keto® DHEA & 25 mg DHEA, 60 capsules
Item Catalog Number: 850
Dhea Complete, 60 Capsules
recheck, if not enough add
DHEA (Dehydroepiandrosterone) Free Base
100 mg, 60 capsules
Item Catalog Number: 883

Look at description in DHEA-complete
use the recomended there additional supplements.

[bonangus]

Thanks very much again guys. I am seeing one of the top Endo's here in Australia on Monday so I will be making sure I have the MRI as well as the ACTH test done as soon as possible (ill be pushing for Monday).

Ive got my fingers crossed that Im not in too much trouble. I have ignored my symptoms for 5 years and have pushed on- Not good hey !

Should I just stop the 10g of Testogel that I am on ??? My balls have shrunk which is a huge concern to me. If I do stop the Gel will I crash and not be able to work for a while ?

Im already thinking of taking quite a bit of time of work just to let my body recover from all the stress I have put it under anyway.

Thanks again.

[pmgamer18]

Yes I feel you will crash if you stop and 4 weeks is a shot time. Don't worry about your testis mine were the size of small grapes. After being on TRT for 23 yrs I found out I am Hypopitutiy I had added HCG to my TRT and my T levels doubled after a shot time on HCG my Testis come back to there normal size.

The best thing you can do until you know what is wrong and start on treatment is to take it easy don't get upset let your self feel stress and get a lot of rest after work. I hope the endo your seeing is better then what we have not good Dr.'s for this. The following list are good Dr.'s
American Academy of Osteopathy
Find an osteopath in US and some other countries
American Academy of Osteopathy

Find an osteopath
American Osteopathic Association

General Osteopathic Council
Find an osteopath in almost any country
Find an Osteopath : General Osteopathic Council

Healthfinder
Find an osteopath near you in the US. Also links to site to explain what an osteopath is.
healthfinder.gov - Osteopath

*I recommend avoiding osteopathic endos. They seem to be the same as regular endos.