Men's Health Forum: This is a discussion on Problem - elevated estradiol within the Anabolic Steroids forums, part of the extensive steroid information at MESO-Rx; I have been on TRT since last August - tried Androderm . . . severe skin irritation - then Cypionate ...
I have been on TRT since last August - tried Androderm . . . severe skin irritation - then Cypionate injections . . . 100/wk left me on "empty" by 5th day - then back to Testim. Since I am worried about transfer problem to grandchildren, I apply at night before bed and shower when I awaken in the morning. One tube of Testim was not enough, so my doctor okayed 2 tubes - 10mg per day. After a month, my test results showed Total T at l383, Free T at 27.24 and Estradiol at 101 . . . BACK UP THE BUS. Although some of the benefits of superphysiologcal T levels were there, my erectile function took a real nose dive. Doctor has had me back off on Testim to 1 1/2 tubes, hoping that both T and E will come down to acceptable levels. I don't think that's going to happen on its own.
I have tried "natural" products to lower E, which was even elevated when I was using 1 tube of Testim per day @ 55. Chrysin, Nettle Root and DIM - tried all of them for one to two weeks, but don't feel they made any difference at all, and erectile function is like a roller-coaster . . . totally unpredictable.
Going to Doctor next week for bloodtests, and I plan to ask him about Arimidex. My research on the internet (both a blessing and a curse) tells me that there is little danger in using Arimidex at low dosage even over a long time period.
Is there something else out there that will lower Estradiol?
I have been on TRT since last August - tried Androderm . . . severe skin irritation - then Cypionate injections . . . 100/wk left me on "empty" by 5th day - then back to Testim. Since I am worried about transfer problem to grandchildren, I apply at night before bed and shower when I awaken in the morning. One tube of Testim was not enough, so my doctor okayed 2 tubes - 10mg per day. After a month, my test results showed Total T at l383, Free T at 27.24 and Estradiol at 101 . . . BACK UP THE BUS. Although some of the benefits of superphysiologcal T levels were there, my erectile function took a real nose dive. Doctor has had me back off on Testim to 1 1/2 tubes, hoping that both T and E will come down to acceptable levels. I don't think that's going to happen on its own.
I have tried "natural" products to lower E, which was even elevated when I was using 1 tube of Testim per day @ 55. Chrysin, Nettle Root and DIM - tried all of them for one to two weeks, but don't feel they made any difference at all, and erectile function is like a roller-coaster . . . totally unpredictable.
Going to Doctor next week for bloodtests, and I plan to ask him about Arimidex. My research on the internet (both a blessing and a curse) tells me that there is little danger in using Arimidex at low dosage even over a long time period.
Is there something else out there that will lower Estradiol?
I am not a doctor, and I am writing this for entertainment value only.
Direct answer to your question, yes, you are using too much testosterone, use less, your E2 will decrease..
You are not the first, many do the same.
Stay away from Arimidex, if you can, it is last resort medicine.
Since you are using testosterone since August, your testicles are already shut down.
That is mostly good news, it would have been better if you had your baseline tests. I you have, post them.
1. You should have been started checking adrenals and thyroid first, it is not too late, start now.
2. Get testosterone picture in order by getting your FreeTestosterone= 160(pg/ml
as close as you can. Latter you may want to up it, but no more than 250.
If it was before you started on testosterone, FreeT=100 would have been almost ok.
I know of only one place that does the testing the right way, and it is only one of the few FreeT tests that they offer,
so be careful here.
Quest Diagnostics Test:
Free, Bioavailable, and Total Testosterone http://www.questdiagnostics.com/hcp/...one_LCMSMS.htm
As result of this test you should get
TotalT
Albumin
SHBG
then they CALCULATE
FreeT
BioavailableT
If you cannot get to this lab, not a problem, just get from same blood draw, TotalT,Albumin,SHBG
then there are calculators on internet so you can yourself calculate the other two numbers.
While you are doing you adjusting, do not get your TotalT more than 650 (at least not at first, but stay close to that number).
I am on Androgel, it is 5grams, maybe 7.5 grams of gel daily to get to this levels.
Direct assays for FreeT are useless here.
.
With all this you E2 should be ether right or controllable with DIM.
I use the one from LEF, Phil here likes Indolplex w/DIM, another debate.
2 pills of LEF DIM works for me fine, that would equal 1 Indolplex DIM-wise.
.
Any changes work slow, when you make change, keep it steady for 6 week minimum,
before doing blood test..
Use Cialis 20mg, one pill every 3.5 days, (twice weekly).
(Cialis will not help you if you are totally out of range, specially E2).
.
If you fit within 90% the above should help you a lot.
Good luck to the other 10%
Luckily, there is Dr Marianco blessing this board,
and doubly lucky, he is thorough with his explanations,
get in touch with him.
Dr Marianco is writting a 2 books, to teach other doctors on how to do it.
I hope he would start on the third one "Anti-Aging for Dummies".
.
When your doctor writes script for a blood test you may want to check it against: list within this: http://www.allthingsmale.com/word_docs/TRT.doc
For about $300 your doctor may consult with Dr Crisler (Dr John), he frequents the other board,
and $50 afterwards. I plan on doing this.
-----------------------------------------------
1cc how am I doing??
.
Since you are
1.(possibly) going to do major rearangement in your theraphy
2.have your testicles already shut down, using T since last August
3. Have grandchild
You may want to drop watever you doing, (I think mostly about T and Arimidex)
Keep Chrysin, Nettle Root and DIM
and change to Tcream by compounding pharmacy.
I have my Tcream in the mail, so I should get it within couple days.
Since you have gradchildren, I expect not many will protest when I tell you that I plan to put my Tcream on my calf. Cover it with a pants (after so many minutes. probably 10) and yor granchildren should be safe.
My doctor talk to them and fax them the prescription.
Good luck.
------------------------------------
Disregard any details on amounts in this letter.
I plan on using 7.5 grams to replace present dose of Androgel, but may go lover.
You may want to read this thread. 1cc knows a lot. http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-...-test-kit.html
------------------------------------
Thank you for your email. We can compound a testosterone cream 100 mg/gram,
which would be equivalent in strength to applying one Androgel 10 gram
packet. The total daily amount of testosterone you are currently using, as
per your email, would be 200 mg of testosterone. With the compounded
testosterone 100 mg/gram cream, you would apply 2 grams per day to get a
total daily amount of 200 mg of testosterone. The cost of a one month
supply (60 grams) of the testosterone 100 mg/gram cream, when applying two
grams per day, is $40.00. We provide a measuring spoon to use. The
prescriptions are sent most commonly via Priority Mail (additional $4.50).
We typically send the prescription to the patient with a bill and then
payment can be made. Patients may pay by personal check or credit card.
We are not able to automatically substitute a compounded testosterone cream
for Androgel. We need an authorization from your doctor in order to do
that. If your doctor is aware that you are looking to obtain a compounded
testosterone cream, then we can contact him/her on your behalf to get the
prescription. If your doctor is unaware of this change, then I recommend
you contacting you doctor to let him/her know of this change. Your doctor
can then fax or call the prescription in to us. The prescription would be
written testosterone 100 mg/gm cream, apply 2 grams daily.
If you need more detailed information, please contact one of our pharmacists
by calling our toll free phone number (1-800-279-5708) weekdays between 8am
and 6pm.
One question when you did your blood work did you put the gel on before the test I have never seen a level this high on 10 grams of testim. If you had the gel on the skin where they took the blood then your test was spiked. Or your labs test is bad. If you look at this link one has levels of Total T at about 700 on 10 grams of Testim. http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/attac...3&d=1139879356
If your shots were up and down you can do like a lot of us do the shots 2 x's a week or add HCG on the 5th and 6th days after your T shot do 250 IU"s doing this will bring up your levels and keep your testis working.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbach
I have been on TRT since last August - tried Androderm . . . severe skin irritation - then Cypionate injections . . . 100/wk left me on "empty" by 5th day - then back to Testim. Since I am worried about transfer problem to grandchildren, I apply at night before bed and shower when I awaken in the morning. One tube of Testim was not enough, so my doctor okayed 2 tubes - 10mg per day. After a month, my test results showed Total T at l383, Free T at 27.24 and Estradiol at 101 . . . BACK UP THE BUS. Although some of the benefits of superphysiologcal T levels were there, my erectile function took a real nose dive. Doctor has had me back off on Testim to 1 1/2 tubes, hoping that both T and E will come down to acceptable levels. I don't think that's going to happen on its own.
I have tried "natural" products to lower E, which was even elevated when I was using 1 tube of Testim per day @ 55. Chrysin, Nettle Root and DIM - tried all of them for one to two weeks, but don't feel they made any difference at all, and erectile function is like a roller-coaster . . . totally unpredictable.
Going to Doctor next week for bloodtests, and I plan to ask him about Arimidex. My research on the internet (both a blessing and a curse) tells me that there is little danger in using Arimidex at low dosage even over a long time period.
Is there something else out there that will lower Estradiol?
__________________
Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see.
Phil
Thanks for feedback. Not only do I have original bloodtest results - since my heart attacks, stent implant and lifechange (65 pounds lighter and a total cardio junkie) in 2002, I have kept a spreadsheet with bloodtest results. Easier for me to see what's happening, and I think even easier for the Doctor - not necessary to flip back in my files to retrieve info.
Originally tested for T in June, 2006. Switched from Pravachol (80mg) to Crestor (10mg and then 20mg) about 6 months before. Noticed some rather nasty myopathys developing after the switch, but couldn't see the forest for the trees, and continued to take Crestor for about 5 months. When walking became so painful that it cut into my exercise addiction, I convinced my doctor to let me drop statin altogether for a week or two to see if there would be any change. Within 5 days, the pain was almost gone. Switched back to Pravachol. During this same period of time, I noticed a worsenning case of ED - whether Crestor was responsible for that too remains unknown . . . not looking for someone to blame, just trying to recapture some erectile function. That's when I asked the doc to check my T.
First check was 6/2006
Total T - 259
Free T - .36
PSA - 0.4
Thyroid panel T3 - 32.7
T4 - 7.2
TSH - 2.35
LH - 1.543
No test for estradiol at this time, unfortunately.
Rechcek in 7/2006
Total T - 195
Free T - 0.19
That's when I first started with Testim - 5mg per day.
Bloodtest 8/2006
Total T - 871
. . . but still had significant ED problems - switched to Cypionate 100/wk mid-September - mainly because of my fears of transfer. I am an involved grandparent.
Bloodtest 10/2006 after switch to Cypionate injections (I became more involved in the process and requested more tests than had been given in the past)
Total T-569
Free T - 0.83
Estradiol - 63
SHBG - 25.5
DHEA - 102
Injections didn't work for me. By day 4 or 5, I could feel my T bottom out. Doc was not supportive of injections every 4 or 5 days. He talked to rep from Testim, and they decided to suggest that I apply Testim just before bed and shower it off the morning. That has worked well for me so far. Doc said it was ok to increase Testim to 2 tubes (10mg) per day.
Bloodtest 11/2006
Total T - 1110
Free T - 27.24
Estradiol 55
SHBG - 25
Bloodtest 1/2007
Total T - 1383
Free T - 2.85ng/dL
PSA - 1.4
LH - <0.1
Estradiol 101
SHBG - 18
DHEA - 27.4
Doc was not happy with levels on Testosterone and Estradiol. Cut me back to 1 1/2 tubes. Will recheck blood in about a week (4 weeks from last test and dosage adjustment). At that time I will request all of the tests that were done in January. Are there others I should be concerned with?
As far as "spiking" - I always schedule bloodtest first thing in the morning since I also have fasting tests done for Lipids and Cholesterol. Testim application was 8 to 10 hours earlier - according to their documentation, only two hours is required for dose to be fully absorbed.
Once again - thanks for feedback. Sometimes I feel very alone and isolated in this corner of my life. The forums help immeasureably, especially in realizing that others are going through the same experience.
My life on T is much better - more energy, more strength, and (most of the time) some erectile function. I would like to get things balanced to see how good it really can be.
No not done yet did you shower first and wash off the area on your sikin where they take the blood if you did not you had a spike. We rub the gel on are amrs and shoulders the gel were your blood is drawn will still spike your test 15 hrs later. I know I have done this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbach
Thanks for feedback. Not only do I have original bloodtest results - since my heart attacks, stent implant and lifechange (65 pounds lighter and a total cardio junkie) in 2002, I have kept a spreadsheet with bloodtest results. Easier for me to see what's happening, and I think even easier for the Doctor - not necessary to flip back in my files to retrieve info.
Originally tested for T in June, 2006. Switched from Pravachol (80mg) to Crestor (10mg and then 20mg) about 6 months before. Noticed some rather nasty myopathys developing after the switch, but couldn't see the forest for the trees, and continued to take Crestor for about 5 months. When walking became so painful that it cut into my exercise addiction, I convinced my doctor to let me drop statin altogether for a week or two to see if there would be any change. Within 5 days, the pain was almost gone. Switched back to Pravachol. During this same period of time, I noticed a worsenning case of ED - whether Crestor was responsible for that too remains unknown . . . not looking for someone to blame, just trying to recapture some erectile function. That's when I asked the doc to check my T.
First check was 6/2006
Total T - 259
Free T - .36
PSA - 0.4
Thyroid panel T3 - 32.7
T4 - 7.2
TSH - 2.35
LH - 1.543
No test for estradiol at this time, unfortunately.
Rechcek in 7/2006
Total T - 195
Free T - 0.19
That's when I first started with Testim - 5mg per day.
Bloodtest 8/2006
Total T - 871
. . . but still had significant ED problems - switched to Cypionate 100/wk mid-September - mainly because of my fears of transfer. I am an involved grandparent.
Bloodtest 10/2006 after switch to Cypionate injections (I became more involved in the process and requested more tests than had been given in the past)
Total T-569
Free T - 0.83
Estradiol - 63
SHBG - 25.5
DHEA - 102
Injections didn't work for me. By day 4 or 5, I could feel my T bottom out. Doc was not supportive of injections every 4 or 5 days. He talked to rep from Testim, and they decided to suggest that I apply Testim just before bed and shower it off the morning. That has worked well for me so far. Doc said it was ok to increase Testim to 2 tubes (10mg) per day.
Bloodtest 11/2006
Total T - 1110
Free T - 27.24
Estradiol 55
SHBG - 25
Bloodtest 1/2007
Total T - 1383
Free T - 2.85ng/dL
PSA - 1.4
LH - <0.1
Estradiol 101
SHBG - 18
DHEA - 27.4
Doc was not happy with levels on Testosterone and Estradiol. Cut me back to 1 1/2 tubes. Will recheck blood in about a week (4 weeks from last test and dosage adjustment). At that time I will request all of the tests that were done in January. Are there others I should be concerned with?
As far as "spiking" - I always schedule bloodtest first thing in the morning since I also have fasting tests done for Lipids and Cholesterol. Testim application was 8 to 10 hours earlier - according to their documentation, only two hours is required for dose to be fully absorbed.
Once again - thanks for feedback. Sometimes I feel very alone and isolated in this corner of my life. The forums help immeasureably, especially in realizing that others are going through the same experience.
My life on T is much better - more energy, more strength, and (most of the time) some erectile function. I would like to get things balanced to see how good it really can be.
__________________
Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see.
Phil
Thanks for feedback. Not only do I have original bloodtest results - since my heart attacks, stent implant and lifechange (65 pounds lighter and a total cardio junkie) in 2002, I have kept a spreadsheet with bloodtest results. Easier for me to see what's happening, and I think even easier for the Doctor - not necessary to flip back in my files to retrieve info.
Originally tested for T in June, 2006. Switched from Pravachol (80mg) to Crestor (10mg and then 20mg) about 6 months before. Noticed some rather nasty myopathys developing after the switch, but couldn't see the forest for the trees, and continued to take Crestor for about 5 months. When walking became so painful that it cut into my exercise addiction, I convinced my doctor to let me drop statin altogether for a week or two to see if there would be any change. Within 5 days, the pain was almost gone. Switched back to Pravachol. During this same period of time, I noticed a worsenning case of ED - whether Crestor was responsible for that too remains unknown . . . not looking for someone to blame, just trying to recapture some erectile function. That's when I asked the doc to check my T.
First check was 6/2006
Total T - 259
Free T - .36
PSA - 0.4
Thyroid panel T3 - 32.7
T4 - 7.2
TSH - 2.35
LH - 1.543
No test for estradiol at this time, unfortunately.
Rechcek in 7/2006
Total T - 195
Free T - 0.19
That's when I first started with Testim - 5mg per day.
Bloodtest 8/2006
Total T - 871
. . . but still had significant ED problems - switched to Cypionate 100/wk mid-September - mainly because of my fears of transfer. I am an involved grandparent.
Bloodtest 10/2006 after switch to Cypionate injections (I became more involved in the process and requested more tests than had been given in the past)
Total T-569
Free T - 0.83
Estradiol - 63
SHBG - 25.5
DHEA - 102
Injections didn't work for me. By day 4 or 5, I could feel my T bottom out. Doc was not supportive of injections every 4 or 5 days. He talked to rep from Testim, and they decided to suggest that I apply Testim just before bed and shower it off the morning. That has worked well for me so far. Doc said it was ok to increase Testim to 2 tubes (10mg) per day.
Bloodtest 11/2006
Total T - 1110
Free T - 27.24
Estradiol 55
SHBG - 25
Bloodtest 1/2007
Total T - 1383
Free T - 2.85ng/dL
PSA - 1.4
LH - <0.1
Estradiol 101
SHBG - 18
DHEA - 27.4
Doc was not happy with levels on Testosterone and Estradiol. Cut me back to 1 1/2 tubes. Will recheck blood in about a week (4 weeks from last test and dosage adjustment). At that time I will request all of the tests that were done in January. Are there others I should be concerned with?
As far as "spiking" - I always schedule bloodtest first thing in the morning since I also have fasting tests done for Lipids and Cholesterol. Testim application was 8 to 10 hours earlier - according to their documentation, only two hours is required for dose to be fully absorbed.
Once again - thanks for feedback. Sometimes I feel very alone and isolated in this corner of my life. The forums help immeasureably, especially in realizing that others are going through the same experience.
My life on T is much better - more energy, more strength, and (most of the time) some erectile function. I would like to get things balanced to see how good it really can be.
Correct levels of T and E2 will not only help with erections but also help control your cholesterol.
Your DHEA is very low, watch adrenals.
Your are going to work on your thyroid, TSH-high, T3--very low,
get at least FreeT3 tested, others may additionally comment on what they see.
Next time at least get checked what is on list below (my short list), but get the list from http://www.allthingsmale.com/word_docs/TRT.doc
Thanks, pmgamer18 - I do shower Testim off every morning, but I know that skin still holds T after surface is washed. I will try to use another location on the night before bloodtest. Found a post on Testim application forum that sez its ok to use outer and inner thighs.
To janSz - appreciate all the feedback. I have looked at the protocols you referenced . . . lots to talk about at my next appointment with the doc. I don't think he has a lot of experience with TRT, but he's very open and willing to learn. He spends lot of time with me when I see him.
My bodyfat still checks out around 20% . . . and I already lift weights 3 days per week (intense sessions), bicycle 3 or 4 times per week (@20 miles), and lap swim daily for 30 minutes. Not unusual for me to throw in a couple of sessions on the eliptical or treadmill as well. Not kidding about the "cardio junkie" thing. I, too, am 67 - 180# - originally got down to 170, but it was just too low for me. My diet is pretty much 20%or< fat (as little saturated as possible) 30% protein and 40% carbs (mostly simple). I don't "cheat." Eat every 3-4 hours to keep metabolism rolling. Hoping that when I get T and E under control, I will see some changes.
Thanks again for taking the time to read my lengthy post and making great suggestions.
Problem - elevated estradiol 
Linear Mode
