Men's Health Forum: This is a discussion on Reverse T negative feedback within the Anabolic Steroids forums, part of the extensive steroid information at MESO-Rx; Originally Posted by Jtay
Hello Head Doc glad to see you stop by.
The problem with SERMS is that this ...
The problem with SERMS is that this science is still in its infancy and they have been known to cause impotency. In fact, it is my understanding that Nolvadex has now been discontinued as breast cancer treatment in males due the magnitude of complaints and many women being treated by same also have this complaint. There are some real horror stories out there regarding impotence and the use of SERMs and since many share the same structure I would not be so quick to say this problem is exclusive to Nolvadex.. Hence, I no longer trust SERMS.
Anyway, it seems like all these expensive, complicated, treatments such as SERMs are doing just that...providing expensive, complicated, answers. Where there is complication, there is confusion, with no clear answers and the next drug is produced, then the next one, and so on, and so on. .
I believe the powers to be want it to remain that way as I stated before because they have a vested interest named the almighty dollar. Call it capitalism at its best, or at its worst, but as long as we the people subscribe to that manipulation and keep searching when the answer may be under our nose big pharma will keep on pumping out the propaganda.
Respectfully, lets look at another example of simplicity......
"Following baclofen administration, plasma GH rose in healthy males.....orally 10 mg of baclofen, the direct GABAB agonist which freely crosses the blood-brain barrier"
However, unlike Baclofen which has mountains of evidence supporting its use, this field remains in its infancy and does not have enough data to put my body at risk. The suppression of LH in some studies still concerns me and as I said, for me, much too early but never-the-less interesting. Remember the excitement over SERMS and now look at the problems that are beginning to surface? I'm always skeptical of experimental therapeutics until ti,me proves its course.
In contrast, baclofen is an old drug with much studies supporting its use.
However, "similar" and "virtually identical" are not the same as exactly identical.
For example, the SERMS Raloxifene and Nolvadex are similar but on closer look each have their own unique structure. No matter how small the difference is one may be beneficial over the other for a given purpose. Also, many have compared baclofen to GHB as they are indeed similar. However, baclofen has been shown not to be prone to abuse as compared to GHB because on closer examination the structure is different as often is the result for for a specific purpose.
Therefore, your intelligent observation warrants merit however, the one big problem is, to my knowledge, there is not enough scientific studies to confirm whether Phenibut will yieid the same results as compared to baclofen relating to anti-aging/body building protocol T, LH, FSH, IGF-I, GH, etc., etc. , etc.
Thus, baclofen, IMO, would be the obvious choice until such time that scientific studies confirm the results of phenibut.. However, there are enough similarities that one may want to test phenibut via individual test results. Labs don't lie (if done properly) and therein is the only way one would know for certain. Unless one is willing to test properly while trying phenibut, why take the chance when studies support the use of baclofen?
I just read about your circumstance. How have you been testing your cortisol? Have you ever done a diurnal cortisol saliva test? It would be interesting knowing the results. Also, would like to know your cholesterol test results and pregnenelone if you have it. Cholesterol is the first step in bio-sythesis of steroid hormones. High cholesterol, low preg may tell us something about your P450.
Ever read the book our stolen future? A good read and the authors make a valid case as to why Andropuase is at record levels and rapidly progressing. Also, take a fasting insulin test if you haven't already. This will indicate whether or not your insulin resistant .
Also, I'm sure you have a blood glucose monitor. Take your levels when you wake, when you go to sleep, before you eat, and 30 minutes and 1-hour after you eat and let me know.
I am not giving medical advice here as I am not a doctor. However, I may have some interesting observations.
Also in regards to the dose of baclofen I plan to start out with...
It will be either 2.5 mg 3X daily (7.5 mg/d ) or 5 mg 3x daily (15 mg/d) to be monitored with appropriate tests every 30 days and dose to be increased or decreased accordingly until I reach my optimum LH level.
I will buy the 10mg tablets and 1/4 or 1/2 them depending on my decision, I will let you know.
If I'm not mistaken, Phenibut is an over the counter supplement that works simiarly to Baclofen.
I've used Phenibut sparingly for tension or sleep. There seems to be controversy over tolerance. I'm not trying to hijack the thread. Just trying to clarify. I have never found anything about phenibut related to HRT.
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And we'll collect the moments one by one.
I guess that's how the future's done.
Feist, "Mushaboom", 2005.
It's not possible to hijack the thread. I'm just a visitor here and appreciate all input . It is important to know both sides of the story from one's personal experience. thanks
Also, I just happen to have low LH levels thus will begin baclofen first and then TRT if I need it. However, if you are one of those with high LH levels then baclofen may still benefit you with a reverse protocol. You may want to begin TRT first which will drive your LH level into the ground. Once your about 1/2 way to your optimum T goal then you may desire to begin baclofen to get your LH back up to speed which should also further increase T. Once your LH is up to speed, adjust yout TRT up or down accordingly. HRT is a balancing act. It may take a few attempts to get it right.
It's not possible to hijack the thread. I'm just a visitor here and appreciate all input . It is important to know both sides of the story from one's personal experience. thanks
it's good to have you here. You bring something new. Once the initial exchanges finish, I hope that you will stay and give us feedback on your proposed trials in this thread.
__________________
And we'll collect the moments one by one.
I guess that's how the future's done.
Feist, "Mushaboom", 2005.
Re: Reverse T negative feedback 
I meant SARM not SERM. I'll rumage around and find some info on SARM's.
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