Spikes in LH

[hackskii]

I believe the adrenal glands produce some testosterone.

I was merely asking as I have been on test creams for 10 months. I did do some cycles and had low levels. I honestly don’t think this is permanent but temporary.
I had severe testicular atrophy and going off everything and waiting for the nuts to come back seemed foolish to me.
I mean that could take a year to get things rolling at that rate.
I figured it was the most prudent advice to get my nuts back before starting the SERMS or even doing the SERMS and HCG then continuing the SERMS for another 3 weeks.

I noticed that HCG seems to work best at late afternoon than early morning for recovery of my nuts. I don’t have unlimited supply of HCG and it is on shortage so I want the best bang for my buck.

I figured that the most natural timing would be the best idea for recovery or the best recovery for my smashed grapes to start looking like walnuts

[pmgamer18]

I think David Z does his HCG at night something about simulating the natural process being that T is the highest at night and early morning.

[chap]

I kept hearing that same mantra, and for me hcg did help to get some testicle size, but not really that much..... when I went on high dose clomid within four days my testicles were very noticeably larger...

I felt really bad the first week off of hcg and the first 3 days of clomid/nolva, but on the fourth day all of the sudden something switched on and since then have felt much much better than even when I was on trt.... I feel natural and good.... libido is still low but other than that everything is good.

[pmgamer18]

Originally Posted by chap

I kept hearing that same mantra, and for me hcg did help to get some testicle size, but not really that much..... when I went on high dose clomid within four days my testicles were very noticeably larger...

I felt really bad the first week off of hcg and the first 3 days of clomid/nolva, but on the fourth day all of the sudden something switched on and since then have felt much much better than even when I was on trt.... I feel natural and good.... libido is still low but other than that everything is good.

I hope this works and you guys can get a formula on how to do this keep a dam good log. So the next guy that wants to try this has something to read about it. I did talk to a guy that was shut down from using Propecia and he was on TRT for over a yr. Then he found a Dr. that put him on Clomid he did different doses over a 6 month time and got his testis working again. But like most men when there problems are gone so are they. We have no idea how he did this and can't find his post because he jumped into a tread with out starting a post him self so we can't find what he said. At the time it did not seem like a big deal but now know what we know now it is and would have been a big help.

[hackskii]

Ah, just the input I was looking for with regards to David Z.
I knew there was something I was noticing.
just had to run it down to be sure I am not mad

I do have a log on another board, I do daily inputs on it, I do stuff in morning and afternoon and I even put up if I am getting wood, how I feel, pumps at the gym everything.
I keep tabs on days times of administration everything, with good detail.
I think you actually can view the log without being a member too.

Well, from what I have read LH comes back in just a couple of weeks.
If the testicles are ready willing and able to accept the LH then they might start kicking again.
This is why I am using some Clomid and nolvadex. I will drop the clomid very soon and was using that too to basicly cover my bases.
Hear after a short period of time clomid desensitises the pituitary gland for GnRH but nolva does not.

I just could not see going off TRT with no nuts
I dont think my condition is permanant but temporary and the longer I stayed on the harder I felt It might just be for recovery.

No attempts were made for me to jumpstart anything prior to the doc putting me on.
In fact I have been on for 10 months and he never ever ran any more blood.
Tells you what type of doc this guy is, he even perscribed progesterone too to me.
I stopped that too after having a chat with Swale.
My fault really blindly following a quak.
Looking back at the time I really felt good about things.
I honestly felt better before this all started.
Sex drive is not what it was a year ago, in fact it is piss poor, but the HCG did help alot the last few nights

[T Man]

When coming off a steroid cycle or TRT.... HCG will certainly keep your HTPA axis suppressed. Its just like being on TRT or a cycle. The feedback loop is being satisfied so GNRH is slowed down and thusly LH and FSH are too. I don't know where you got the info that your Pituitary will come back in 2 weeks. You will be very lucky to have this happen. I have spoken to one of the foremost Pituitary research doctors in the country and this is what he had to say. "Depending on how long and how much the Pituitary was suppressed it could take years to recover and some people will never fully recover to there pre-steroid/TRT state. We have seen it take up to 7 years for recovery in some cases that we have followed." He was stating the unlucky worst case scenario. Of course some people do recover within a year.
He also said HCG alone had no benefit in HTPA axis recovery. It only serves to further suppress.

[DavidZ]

For the 6 years I've been on an HCG only protocol, I've been injecting HCG at bedtime per Dr. Shippen's instructions. He says that it best duplicates the body's circadian rhythm.

After a long dialogue with Swale about a year ago about HCG injection timing, I started experimenting. I tried morning injections for a couple of days and started to feel tired, like I was beginning to crash, so I immediately went back to bedtime injections.

OTOH, Swale recommended injecting once a day, instead of twice a week, which I tried and liked. I've been injecting nightly ever since.

Originally Posted by T Man

When coming off a steroid cycle or TRT.... HCG will certainly keep your HTPA axis suppressed. Its just like being on TRT or a cycle. The feedback loop is being satisfied so GNRH is slowed down and thusly LH and FSH are too. I don't know where you got the info that your Pituitary will come back in 2 weeks. You will be very lucky to have this happen. I have spoken to one of the foremost Pituitary research doctors in the country and this is what he had to say. "Depending on how long and how much the Pituitary was suppressed it could take years to recover and some people will never fully recover to there pre-steroid/TRT state. We have seen it take up to 7 years for recovery in some cases that we have followed." He was stating the unlucky worst case scenario. Of course some people do recover within a year.
He also said HCG alone had no benefit in HTPA axis recovery. It only serves to further suppress.

During my 6 years of HCG only, my HCG dosage slowly declined but eventually levelled off. At first I was convinced that my HPTA was recovering, but now I don't think so.

[hackskii]

Thanks David, I thought something was going on which I did notice more erections and fuller nuts.
Now that makes alot more sense and actually just felt right and found this by accident.
Thanks that was very cool.

T man if you read any of my posts, having nuts the size of smashed grapes needs to be addressed.
Atrophied nuts will make recovery harder than nuts that have some testicular function right?

Or is your point that I am only further hindering my HPTA (which the "T" does stand for Testicular) getting my nuts back to speed?
Would this really matter much being on TRT for 10 months?
Would 3 weeks set me back farther than the 10 months previous?
I think the SERMs will help with the other HPTA (Hypothalamus Pituitary) part of the equation.

Do you have any other suggestions Tman?
Just cold turkey it with rasin nuts?

Thanks again DavidZ that was cool.

[DavidZ]

Originally Posted by hackskii

Thanks David, I thought something was going on which I did notice more erections and fuller nuts. Now that makes alot more sense and actually just felt right and found this by accident. Thanks that was very cool.

You're welcome, hackskii.

Swale recommends taking HCG in the morning. His rationale is: "so you can enjoy the benefits of HCG during the day." Many posters on Swale's combo protocol have described these benefits as "that feeling of well-being" that comes about a hour after an HCG shot.

I'm beginning to think that this "feeling of well being" is something quite distinct from the T response that HCG yields.

My experience indicates that the T response that a given dosage of HCG yields is much larger when taken at bedtime. Perhaps I'm getting "that feeling of well-being" during my sleep. You might say that I'm wasting that feeling. I think not. First of all, I feel great all day. Secondly, sleep is a critical time of recharging the battery. If HCG is giving me better sleep, I'm sure that benefits me during the day, too.

[Bayou230]

I went cold turkey this week on the TRT after 10 months on. At various points along the way I've been doing 10g Androgel, 20mg Nolva, 50mg Zinc and 20mg Lasix everyday. Started to feel bad...fatigued, muscle aches and sleepy during daytime. At first I thought it was the Nolva, since it was the newcomer to the mix. That appears not to be true.

Since my DHT levels have soared way above normal, I thought the most logical thing to drop in an effort to see if I feel better was the Androgel.

Hackskii asked about going cold turkey with rasin nuts. That what I'm doing, The only thing I'm taking now is the Nolva and Lasix.

I can confirm other post in this thread indicating improved night time wood while on the Nolva alone. Will give the jury a bit of time to see if the nuts are recovering. They didn't shrink overnight so I don't expect them to recover over night.

But what about long term? I'm thinking about the possiblity of starting a routine of test injections (in an effort to avoid elevated DHT) on an IRREGULAR schedule. Everyone talks about the roller coaster effect of rising and falling test levels. I'm thinking I can endure the perils of falling levels in order to enjoy the benfits of rising levels. I believe SWALE stated that the high you get from initially starting TRT is due to rising levels. (And starting my TRT program was really sweet for me.) Maybe an irregular routine will keep the nuts on notice that they have to pull some of the weight, too.

Sorry for the long post. Feel free to let me know if you think my brain is matching my rasins, size for size Hope this is not too much off topic.