testosterone level "within range" but VERY low LH/FSH: what can i do ?

[UK LIFTER]

Will very low LH/FSH levels cause a loss of libidio, ED, anxiety etc?

YES i can speak about it ! My LH/FSH levels were hardly detectable 4 weeks ago (while my testosterone is "within range" but at the very bottom of it).
Im not sure what my LH/FSH are right now but considering i feel pretty much the same (besides today as ive been feeling much much better thru an injection of HCG last night: see previous post) i suppose they're likely to be more or less the same. I tryed TRIBULUS, MUIRA PUAMA, MUCUNA PRURIENS, YOHIMBINE, SAW PALMETTO but with very very little results ! I also tryed PROVIRON and it helped for a while but things went back to zero again after 2-3 weeks on it.

I have no libido and therefore i can't get a decent hardon. I am not particularly anxious but i just feel depressed. And with no libido even VIAGRA/CIALIS/LEVITRA can't do much for me !

I am on Androderm 5mg patch daily and this increased my total T, but won't do anything for LH/FSH.

Do you still manage to get a hard-on and do you have any libido at all with an increased testosterone level but no LH/FSH ?

[UK LIFTER]

Read TRT: A Recipe for Success and the HCG Update at www.allthingsmale.com.

Thanks very much for that link ! Ive just had a look and the HCG update is very interesting (250mg HCG the day before + 250mg HCG the day of the weekly test injection).
.

[pmgamer18]

Originally Posted by UK LIFTER

Thanks very much for that link ! Ive just had a look and the HCG update is very interesting (250mg HCG the day before + 250mg HCG the day of the weekly test injection).
.

He is a dam good Dr. and if you could fly out to see him he would get you jump started so you would not need TRT. Or if you can get your Family Dr. to work with him over the phone he does this to.

[Matt Muscle]

[quote=UK LIFTER]I know it would be a good idea to stop now (while things are not yet -hopefully- damaged before repair) but it is very very hard to do. I've been off cycle for 10 weeks and it's just killing me. Aches and pains, loss of interest in anything starting with sex. Even though i had a shot of HCG last night and today ive been feeling just great. Not far from the confidence/happyness while on gear to be honest ! It was a nice unexpected boost ! Not to mention that my work out was excellent today.[quote]

The side effects you have had from clomid may stay whilst you are taking it, however it may still be doing its job in helping to restore HPTA function. Many guys experience no sex drive and ED during therapy, some do not. It exerts some estrogen like effects as well as blocking some receptors, these can vary from one individual to another.
The restart protocols discussed in this forum use a combination of nolvadex clomid and hCG. You will need to research them furtther for the correct timing and dosages.

Taking any more testosterone will only further delay your recovery and inhibit production of gonadotrophins (LH and FSH).
The aches and pains and depression you are experiencing are from a sudden drop in androgens, as you did not do any PCT after stopping AAS.
One of the problems of using AAS especially when your older is the strain it can put one your joints and connective tissue... as it allows you to train pain free with poundages heavier and levels of intensity higher, than your body would normally allow, so that when you discontinue, problems can arise.

Yes it is hard to stop, but stopping without therapy to restart your natural hormone cycle, is as you know, very difficult, and it can take a very long time to return and often it does not by itself, remaining in a low state of function. Do some thorough research on the restart protocols, some of the guys here have had good success with them.

Training naturally can be hard at first, especially when your battling with your ego. But once you discover how much healthier it feels you begin to appreciate any changes you make as truly your own!

[hackskii]

Adding testosterone or HCG to your condition will lower your LH, FSH or stop it from returning.

Clomid you say didnt work so why not try nolvadex. Many, many guys use this for LH/FSH recovery protocols to boost the hypothalamus and pituitary glands back into action.
Stuff is cheap too.

Nolvadex will make the pituitary gland more sensitive to GnRH too so this is all good.
Proviron?...........NO
HCG?.................NO
Testosterone? Forget it if you ever want to recover.

I think what is happening now is your leydig cells are very sensitive to LH, this is why you have normal testosterone levels or within range but low LH/FSH

Get some SERMS and give that a try.

[UK LIFTER]

Adding testosterone or HCG to your condition will lower your LH, FSH or stop it from returning.

I thought HCG would help things out ? The guidelines of American endocrinologists on secondary hypogonadism preconize HCG/HMG as treatment? See: http://www.guideline.gov/summary/sum...=3524&nbr=2750

Clomid you say didnt work so why not try nolvadex.

I tryed NOLVADEX during my last course and as PCT aswell. My oestrogene level must then have been sky high (it was 2 months ago) so i took ARIMIDEX for 1 week and my emotional state was blasted within a week, it left me with NO sexdrive at all once again.

I then started PROVIRON (3x25mg a day) for about 2-3 weeks (in addition to all the herbal aphrodisiacs you could think about: costed me more money than my actual cycle and with very little results on my sexdrive) and for about 2 weeks my sexdrive was okay and for about 1 week my dick was hard as nail at the first stimulation.

Things started to deteriorate and i dumped PROVIRON and carried on taking herbal supplementation with NO results.

For the last 3-4 weeks my sexdrive has been TOTALLY nil !

I started taking 3.33iu GH every day 2 weeks ago. Not so much for HPTA recovery (ive just found out about what could be another "myth") but to lose the shit i gained post-cycle. I plan to cycle GH for 3 months.

But then Sunday i had a 1500iu HCG and since then things started to improve: first at the gym (strength is back up, pump is there again), then in my head (self-esteem, motivation and inspiration are back and my post cycle depression seems to be gone !) and my sexdrive seems to come back since yesterday/today. Moreover for the first time in weeks my scrotum is tighter and my dick even at rest feels full of blood (sorry for the details ! lol).

I was planning to do a 500iu shot of HCG Friday night (5 days after my initial HCG shot) and from then every 3rd day.

Ive also been taking 20mg NOLVADEX every day since Sunday and i carry on taking my herbal supplementation.

Ive been thinking about taking HMG (ive got 4 boxes of 6x75iu) but i know so little about this product that i think i will wait another time.

Again, thank you VERY much for your input and sorry if i am a pain. Ive been taking gear for almost 10 years and ive just STARTED now to understand all those hormones work and interact with each other.

[hackskii]

I am lost.

What makes you think that HCG is going to help your pituitary or hypothalamus?

Your hypothalamus sends a chemical signal to your pituitary gland called GnRH, this once hits the pituitary gland sends another chemical signal to your leydig cells called LH and FSH, one is to make sperm and one is to make testosterone.

If HCG mimics LH and to some extent FSH (from what I read on fertility), why would the body manufacture LH and FSH in the presence of adding it exogenously.

If your not producing alot of LH and FSH but have near normal testosterone levels then this suggests to me that your leydig cells are sensitised due to low LH.
If this is in fact the case then adding HCG will raise testosterone and at the same time probably make your leydig cells desensitize leaving you with lower test levels due to the leydig cells not being as sensitive.

HCG is for testicular atrophy and testicular function, why on earth would you with normal testosterone levels inject HCG?
To feel better?
I am afraid that you are putting your pituitary and hypothalamus at risk or extending their ability to produce adequate hormones for your testicles.


BigAk had no testosterone and very high LH and FSH, this is because the body is trying to get the nuts to go to work, your condition is opposite than his.

[UK LIFTER]

I am lost too !
However all i know is i feel much much better in myself since that single shot of 1500iu of HCG 3 days ago (and Nolvadex since). It might be temporary but im ready to take the risk, i don't think my LH/FSH will be desensitized with only 500iu HCG twice a week for a couple of weeks. Moreover CLOMID reacts totally differently (in a bad way) with me and i get benefits from HCG so i don't have much to lose with LH+FSH levels near zero already.

After a couple of weeks i will then reassess the situation and more likely go back on the gear, it ain't the smartest thing to do of course but i've always done so so far and 10 weeks off gear is just killing me. However i will not run cycles for more than 2 months again ! I learnt my lesson !

I am getting some blood work done in 2 weeks so ill then find out if my LH/FSH levels are similar, worse or better.


Hypogonadotrophic Hypogonadism (low/normal T + low LH/FSH):
http://www.emedicine.com/PED/topic1118.htm

An alternative for men with hypogonadotropic hypogonadism has been treatment with pulsatile LHRH or hCG, either of which can stimulate testicular growth. Since such treatment is more complex than testosterone replacement, and since treatment with testosterone does not interfere with later therapy to induce fertility, most male patients with hypogonadotropic hypogonadism prefer to initiate and maintain virilization with testosterone. At a time when fertility is desired, it may be induced with either pulsatile LHRH or (more commonly) with a schedule of injections of hCG and FSH.

[hackskii]

Dude, you are gonna have to come off sooner or later anyway.
Your approach to me seems a bit reckless.

Your body will return to homeostasis in time by itself anyway.
If your test levels are within the normal range then you dont need HCG.
Sure it will make you feel better but there are other things involved like.

Snip
Taken from www.AllThingsMale.com
Copyright John Crisler, DO 2004
But there’s another metabolic reason to employ this protocol. The P450 Side Chain Cleavage enzyme, which converts CHOL into pregnenolone at the initiation of all three metabolic pathways CHOL serves as precursor (the sex hormones, glucocorticoids and mineralcorticoids), is actively stimulated, or depressed, by LH concentrations. It is intuitively consistent that during conditions of lowered testosterone levels, commensurate increases in LH production would serve to stimulate this conversion from CHOL into these pathways, thereby feeding more raw material for increased hormone production. And vice versa. Thus the addition of HCG (which also stimulates the P450scc enzyme) helps restore a more natural balance of the hormones within this pathway in patients who are entirely, or even partially, HPTA-suppressed.

So, I think you will see better gains if you let your clock reset. Playing around with the endrocrine system can have it set of problems.

[artificialaspirations]

Which drugs boost F S H and LH? I have low test/lh/fsh and was wondering if anything can kickstart the HPTA?

I go in for an mri to see if I have a tumor on the pituitary very soon.

For those of you w/ pituitary tumors what is the plan of action? Brain surgery? Is it life threatening? HRT?