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Men's Health Forum: This is a discussion on Transdermal T Aromatization and skin area application within the Anabolic Steroids forums, part of the extensive steroid information at MESO-Rx; I once read a post, which I can’t find right now, which basically said that the smaller the area of ...

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Old 11-27-2005, 08:23 PM
1cc 1cc is offline
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Default Transdermal T Aromatization and skin area application

I once read a post, which I can’t find right now, which basically said that the smaller the area of skin that Testosterone Cream/Gel is applied to, the less aromatization will occur.

So for example, applying 50mg of Androgel would require applying 5 grams of gel, which would require a larger skin area and would lead to more aromatization. If the Androgel was formulated so that 50mg would require only 1 gram of gel, then this would cause less aromatization because less skin area would be required.

Does anyone know anything about this at all?
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Old 11-27-2005, 09:25 PM
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Yes, that was me who posted that. Here ya go...

Seems applying transdermal T to less surface area results in lower DHT levels. This means using a higher concentration (5% to 1%) results in less skin area and less DHT.

Pharmacokinetics of Transdermal Testosterone Gel in Hypogonadal Men: Application of Gel at One Site Versus Four Sites: A General Clinical Research Center Study1
C. Wang, N. Berman, J. A. Longstreth, B. Chuapoco, L. Hull, B. Steiner, S. Faulkner, R. E. Dudley and R. S. Swerdloff
Division of Endocrinology, Departments of Medicine (C.W., B.C., L.H., B.S., R.S.S.) and Pediatrics (N.B.), Harbor–UCLA Medical Center and Research and Education Institute, Torrance, California 90509; and Unimed Pharmaceuticals, Inc. (J.A.L., S.F., R.E.D.), Buffalo Grove, Illinois 60089

Address correspondence and requests for reprints to: Christina Wang, Clinical Study Center Box 16, Harbor–UCLA Medical Center, 1000 West Carson Street, Torrance, California 90509. E-mail: wang@gcrc.humc.edu.

Testosterone (T) in a hydroalcoholic gel has been developed as an effective and convenient open system for transdermal delivery of the hormone to men. Because the gel can be applied either to small or large areas of skin, it was important to assess whether the skin surface area on which the gel was applied was an important determinant of serum T levels. To answer this question, the pharmacokinetics of a transdermal 1% hydroalcoholic gel preparation of T was studied in nine hypogonadal men. The subjects applied in random order a 25-mg metered dose of T gel either four times at one site (left arm/shoulder) or at four different sites (left and right arms/shoulders and left and right abdomen) once daily (6–8 min) for 7 consecutive days. After 7 days of washout, each subject was then crossed over to the opposite regimen for another 7 days of treatment. Serum samples were collected for measurements of T, 5 dihydrotestosterone (DHT), and estradiol before, during (days 1, 2, 3, 5, and 7), and after (days 8, 9, 11, 13, and 15) application of T gel. Multiple blood samples were drawn on the 1st and 7th day after gel application; single samples were obtained just before the next T gel application on other days (24 h after the previous gel application). The T gel dried in less than 5 min, left no residue, and produced no skin irritation in any of the subjects. Mean serum T levels, irrespective of application at one site or four sites followed the same pattern: rising to 2- to 3- and 4- to 5-fold above baseline at 0.5 and 24 h after first application, respectively. Thereafter, serum T levels reached steady state and remained at 4- to 5-fold above baseline (at the upper limit of the normal adult range) for the duration of gel application and returned to baseline within 4 days after stopping application. The application of T gel at four sites (application skin area approximately four times that of one site) resulted in a mean area under the curve (AUC0–24h) for serum T levels on the 7th day (868 ± 72 nmol*h/L, mean ± SEM), which was 23% higher but not significantly different (P = 0.06) than repeated application at one site (706 ± 59 nmol*h/L). This could be due to the limited number of subjects studied (n = 9). Mean serum DHT levels followed the same pattern as serum T, achieving steady-state levels by 2 days. The mean concentration of serum DHT on the 7th day was significantly higher after application at four sites (9.15 ± 1.26 nmol/L, P < 0.05) than at one site (6.9 ± 0.77 nmol/L). These serum DHT levels were at or above the normal adult male range. Serum DHT:T ratio was not significantly altered by T gel application. Serum estradiol levels followed the same pattern as serum T and showed no significant difference between the one- or four-site application. We conclude that transdermal daily application of 100 mg T gel resulted in similar steady levels of serum T. The surface area of the skin to which the gel was applied had only a modest impact on serum T and DHT levels. Mean serum levels of T and DHT was higher by 23% and 33%, respectively, despite application of the gel to four times the skin area in the four sites compared with the one site group. Because of the greater dosage flexibility provided, hydroalcoholic T gel application over multiple sites seems to be an effective and nonskin-irritating method of transdermal T delivery for hypogonadal men. Dose-ranging studies are required to determine dosage regimens for T gel application as a replacement therapy in hypogonadal men.
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Old 11-27-2005, 10:30 PM
1cc 1cc is offline
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Thanks SPE, I found your original thread and will post some more info there.

Finally got my compounded testosterone gel!

Last edited by 1cc; 11-27-2005 at 10:38 PM.
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Old 11-27-2005, 10:37 PM
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Here are some more studies that seem to suggest that a smaller application area for Testosterone Gel/Cream should lead to lower DHT and Estrogen conversion.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/con.../89/8/3821#R18
When transdermal T gels are applied to a large area of skin, higher serum DHT/T ratios have been reported, although the increase is considered not to be clinically significant (20, 21). This may be due to the presence of 5- -reductase in the skin that may result in greater conversion of T to DHT and the larger skin area that is exposed to the gel on administration, compared with other topical formulations, or to TBS (18, 19).


http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/con...18c23053cb5 e
T gel application resulted in mean serum DHT that tripled after application of 50 mg T gel and rose nearly 5-fold with 100 mg T gel treatment. As 5 -reductase is present in nongenital skin (25), the increase in DHT/T ratios in the 100 and 50 mg gel groups could be explained by the higher conversion in the skin of T to DHT as a result of the large area of skin surface exposed to T in the gel groups compared with the very small area of skin exposed to the T patch.
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Old 11-28-2005, 05:20 PM
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"Serum estradiol levels followed the same pattern as serum T and showed no significant difference between the one- or four-site application. We conclude that transdermal daily application of 100 mg T gel resulted in similar steady levels of serum T. "

HUH?

As long as the DHT is not supraphysiologic, who cares?

E matters though.
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Old 11-29-2005, 09:53 AM
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my dht went to 275 on 2 tubes of testim ref 25-75 , but that was only enought to get my t to 550 , ref 220 - 1000 ?
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androgel , dht , estradiol , estrogen , medicine , pharmaceuticals , testim , testosterone

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