Update on labs after switching to HC.

[pmgamer18]

I just got back from the Dr.'s and he agreed to give me Cortef but said it is much stronger then Isocort. He is trying to tell me 8 pills of Isocort = 20mgs of Cortisol and this would be = to 10 mgs of Cortef. He was showing me the converson chart in his book. Do you know if this is true. Anyway he does not know I switched to HC 5mgs 4 times a day.

My Tests came back my Testosterone went way up from 995 to 1252. And my DHEA went over the top of the range 574 from 436 on Isocort. So I am cutting back from 50mgs to 25.

He still thinks I am doing 1.5 grains of Armour but my dose is 2.5 grains. My thyroid labs came back after being at 2.5 grains for 3 weeks to the following.

TSH = 0.5503 down from 1.0466.
Free T3 = 3.00 up from 2.70.
I am mad they did not do Free T4.
last test T4 was .86
Here is what they did.
FT1 = 6.76 range 6.33 to 12.40 ug/dL.
T Uptake 1.00 range 0.69 to 1.41 units.
T3 total = 1.23 range 0.58 to 1.59 ng/ml
T4 total = 6.76 range 5.0 to 12.0 ug/dl

He told me not to raise my dose that in 4 weeks I will see a change. I feel like I need to go higher now he thinks I am doing 1.5 grains and I am doing 2.5 grains. I wish he would have done Free T4.

I think I now know why people feel better switching from Isocort to Cortef or HC it is 2 x's stronger.

[Rangeball]

Originally Posted by pmgamer18

I just got back from the Dr.'s and he agreed to give me Cortef but said it is much stronger then Isocort. He is trying to tell me 8 pills of Isocort = 20mgs of Cortisol and this would be = to 10 mgs of Cortef. He was showing me the converson chart in his book. Do you know if this is true.
I think I now know why people feel better switching from Isocort to Cortef or HC it is 2 x's stronger.

This is in-correct.

1 pellet of isocort has 2.5 mg of hydrocortisone.

20mg of cortisol from isocort is = to 20mg of cortisol from cortef.

[JanSz]

Originally Posted by pmgamer18

I just got back from the Dr.'s and he agreed to give me Cortef but said it is much stronger then Isocort. He is trying to tell me 8 pills of Isocort = 20mgs of Cortisol and this would be = to 10 mgs of Cortef. He was showing me the converson chart in his book. Do you know if this is true. Anyway he does not know I switched to HC 5mgs 4 times a day.

My Tests came back my Testosterone went way up from 995 to 1252. And my DHEA went over the top of the range 574 from 436 on Isocort. So I am cutting back from 50mgs to 25.

He still thinks I am doing 1.5 grains of Armour but my dose is 2.5 grains. My thyroid labs came back after being at 2.5 grains for 3 weeks to the following.

TSH = 0.5503 down from 1.0466.
Free T3 = 3.00 up from 2.70.
I am mad they did not do Free T4.
last test T4 was .86
Here is what they did.
FT1 = 6.76 range 6.33 to 12.40 ug/dL.
T Uptake 1.00 range 0.69 to 1.41 units.
T3 total = 1.23 range 0.58 to 1.59 ng/ml
T4 total = 6.76 range 5.0 to 12.0 ug/dl

He told me not to raise my dose that in 4 weeks I will see a change. I feel like I need to go higher now he thinks I am doing 1.5 grains and I am doing 2.5 grains. I wish he would have done Free T4.
I think I now know why people feel better switching from Isocort to Cortef or HC it is 2 x's stronger.

I thought that when you on Armour Thyroid all you watch is FreeT3 and try to get it in to 25% to within top 25%.
3.825 <--FT3 start of upper 25%
3.667 <--FT3 start of upper 33%
3.350 <--FT3 start of upper 50%
And if you are having problem increasing Armour Thyroid that mean you have to work on your adrenals.
You are still in lower half of FreeT3 range.
.

[Rangeball]

Dr. Teitelbaum's instructions on taking cortef and IsoCort:

Isocort (Adrenal Glandular) – Contains 2½mg Cortisol (Cortef) per pellet (see #41 for directions).

#34.: Cortef - 5 mg tablets (so all the recommendations for tablets / pellets here would be doubled - Isocort has half the cortisol that cortef has) - ½ to 2½ (1 to 4) tablet(s) at breakfast, ½ to 1½ (1 to 3) tablets at lunch and 0 to ½ (0 to 1) tablets at 4 PM. Use the lowest dose that feels the best. Most patients find that 1 to 1½ (2 to 3) tablets in the morning and ½ to 1 (1 to 2) tablet at noon is optimal. Take it with food if it causes an acid stomach. Do not take over 4 (8 ) tablets a day without discussing the risks with your physician. Take Calcium (see #5) if on Cortef. If taken too late in the day, Cortef can keep you up at night. You can double the dose for up to 1 to 3 weeks (to maximum 7 (14) tablets a day), during periods of severe stress (e.g., infections - see or call your doctor for the infection and let him/her know you're raising the dose). If routinely taking over 4 (8 ) tablets a day, wear a "Med-Alert bracelet" that says "on chronic Cortisol treatment."

Take vitamin C 500mg twice a day for adrenal support. Panax Ginseng 100mg twice a day (taken in "6 week on and 2 week off" cycles) can also help your adrenals to heal. After 9 months, you can try to wean off the Cortef (decrease by ½ (1) tablet a day each 2 weeks) if you feel OK (or no worse) without it. Taking over 4 (8 ) tablets a day regularly can be quite toxic. Taking less than 20mg/day is much safer.

(3. Calcium -500 to 1000 mg daily with 400 units of vitamin D (a chewable calcium or calcium citrate or chelate is recommended). If you get a non-chewable tablet, see if it dissolves in 2 to 3 inches of vinegar over 1 hour (swirl a few times). If not, it won't dissolve in your stomach, and you need to get a different brand. (Do not drink the vinegar). You can also avoid this problem by using capsules or liquid filled gelcaps. Taken at bedtime, it may help sleep.)

[pmgamer18]

I told my Dr. that 8 pills of Isocort = 20mgs of cortisol and that 20mgs. of Cortef was the same get went and got he book and showed me Cortef is at 10mgs= to 8 pill of Isocort the cortisol in Isorcort is not the same and the HC in Cortef. I talke to Val at stop the Thyroid Madness and she feels this is true and that is why people do better on HC.

Originally Posted by Rangeball

Dr. Teitelbaum's instructions on taking cortef and IsoCort:

Isocort (Adrenal Glandular) – Contains 2½mg Cortisol (Cortef) per pellet (see #41 for directions).

#34.: Cortef - 5 mg tablets (so all the recommendations for tablets / pellets here would be doubled - Isocort has half the cortisol that cortef has) - ½ to 2½ (1 to 4) tablet(s) at breakfast, ½ to 1½ (1 to 3) tablets at lunch and 0 to ½ (0 to 1) tablets at 4 PM. Use the lowest dose that feels the best. Most patients find that 1 to 1½ (2 to 3) tablets in the morning and ½ to 1 (1 to 2) tablet at noon is optimal. Take it with food if it causes an acid stomach. Do not take over 4 (8 ) tablets a day without discussing the risks with your physician. Take Calcium (see #5) if on Cortef. If taken too late in the day, Cortef can keep you up at night. You can double the dose for up to 1 to 3 weeks (to maximum 7 (14) tablets a day), during periods of severe stress (e.g., infections - see or call your doctor for the infection and let him/her know you're raising the dose). If routinely taking over 4 (8 ) tablets a day, wear a "Med-Alert bracelet" that says "on chronic Cortisol treatment."

Take vitamin C 500mg twice a day for adrenal support. Panax Ginseng 100mg twice a day (taken in "6 week on and 2 week off" cycles) can also help your adrenals to heal. After 9 months, you can try to wean off the Cortef (decrease by ½ (1) tablet a day each 2 weeks) if you feel OK (or no worse) without it. Taking over 4 (8 ) tablets a day regularly can be quite toxic. Taking less than 20mg/day is much safer.

(3. Calcium -500 to 1000 mg daily with 400 units of vitamin D (a chewable calcium or calcium citrate or chelate is recommended). If you get a non-chewable tablet, see if it dissolves in 2 to 3 inches of vinegar over 1 hour (swirl a few times). If not, it won't dissolve in your stomach, and you need to get a different brand. (Do not drink the vinegar). You can also avoid this problem by using capsules or liquid filled gelcaps. Taken at bedtime, it may help sleep.)

[Rangeball]

Originally Posted by pmgamer18

Cortef is at 10mgs= to 8 pill of Isocort the cortisol in Isorcort is not the same and the HC in Cortef.

8 pills of isocort = 10mg of cortisol.

10mg of cortef= 10mg of cortisol.

Cortisol is cortisol.

I think why people do better on HC than isocort is it is pure cortisol and doesn't have the rest of the adrenal cortex which include hormones produced by sheep (where isocort comes from) that humans don't produce.

[pmgamer18]

Originally Posted by Rangeball

8 pills of isocort = 10mg of cortisol.

10mg of cortef= 10mg of cortisol.

Cortisol is cortisol.

I think why people do better on HC than isocort is it is pure cortisol and doesn't have the rest of the adrenal cortex which include hormones produced by sheep (where isocort comes from) that humans don't produce.

No it's different unless one of the Dr.'s can jump in here 10mgs of Cortef = 10mgs of Hydrocortisone. Hydrocortisone is not the same as the cortisol in Isocort. I don't think my Dr. printed up the book. And I read this my self Isocort is at 8 pills = 20mgs of cortisol. 10mgs of Cortef = 8 pills of Isocort. I went around and around with my Dr. on this then he got the book. Also the book stated that Isocort is said to have 2.5 mgs of cortisol in each pill but there is no proof ot this. Read the bottle is does not say anything about how much cortisol is in it.

[pmgamer18]

Originally Posted by JanSz

I thought that when you on Armour Thyroid all you watch is FreeT3 and try to get it in to 25% to within top 25%.
3.825 <--FT3 start of upper 25%
3.667 <--FT3 start of upper 33%
3.350 <--FT3 start of upper 50%
And if you are having problem increasing Armour Thyroid that mean you have to work on your adrenals.
You are still in lower half of FreeT3 range.
.

You need to watch both free t3 and free t4.

[JanSz]

Originally Posted by pmgamer18

You need to watch both free t3 and free t4.

Here is a view.
Armour Thyroid have 20% of T3, the balance is T4 + others
humans have 10% T3
When supplementing with Armour Thyroid one should gain proper level of T3 first and T4 will always be be behind, possibly that is why some people, sometimes are adding synthetic T4 to the Armour Thyroid.
(I am just trying to be logical, I do not have actual knowledge here but have seen this logic used on this board, I think yesterday, but cant find that post)

[pmgamer18]

Originally Posted by JanSz

Here is a view.
Armour Thyroid have 20% of T3, the balance is T4 + others
humans have 10% T3
When supplementing with Armour Thyroid one should gain proper level of T3 first and T4 will always be be behind, possibly that is why some people, sometimes are adding synthetic T4 to the Armour Thyroid.
(I am just trying to be logical, I do not have actual knowledge here but have seen this logic used on this board, I think yesterday, but cant find that post)

Here is a dam good link I found.
http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/woliner.htm

[JanSz]

Originally Posted by pmgamer18

Here is a dam good link I found.
http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/woliner.htm

This is very nice write up.
Have you noticed sentence there:
“Interestingly enough, you will never need another thyroid blood test again.”
-------------
You are at 2.5 grains and your FreeT3 is still in lower half of range.
I am guessing that you should go up to 3 grains, slowly, and then wait patiently, probably about 6 months, then test your FreeT3 (and FreeT4 since they already have your blood), when your FreeT4 becomes too low you may need syntetic T4 in addition to Armour.
(My guessing and rambling, talk to real doctor for actual davice).
--------------
in my previous post I refered to this post of FYI777 (12-17-2006, 04:08 PM )
and Dr. J reply (12-17-2006, 04:44 PM )
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-...tml#post687244

[pmgamer18]

JanSz thanks this is just what I plain on doing this Sunday I am upping the Armour 15mgs. then when my Temps start going down again on my chart I will up it again this seams to happen every 2 weeks.

[Rangeball]

Phil, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, but in closing, I refer you to your sig line

Anyway, glad you are feeling better. I'm up to 3.5 grains and my waking temp still is hovering around 97*

[pmgamer18]

Originally Posted by Rangeball

Phil, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, but in closing, I refer you to your sig line

Anyway, glad you are feeling better. I'm up to 3.5 grains and my waking temp still is hovering around 97*

No I don't believe everything I hear and only half of what I see. Hell for all I know he is pulling one over on me will not be the first time. When I asked him to check my E2 he told me men don't have this problem. The next time I seen him I came with lots of studys on it. Now he checks all his men for high E2. I just find it odd that I switched from using 8 pills of Isocort to 5mgs 4 times a day of HC and my Total T levels went up 300 Points my Glucose is much better and my DHEA went over the top of the range. My Free T went away up. So lets just say it this way HC works much better then Isocort. And Dr. Jefferies says to treat adrenals to take 5mgs of HC 4 times a day. Did your read the thread on temps where a Dr. states you morning temps may take a good yr. to come up over 97.8 after your on the right dose of armour.

[Rangeball]

Originally Posted by pmgamer18

lets just say it this way HC works much better then Isocort. And Dr. Jefferies says to treat adrenals to take 5mgs of HC 4 times a day.

Absolutely This is the current dose I'm taking, and it's working well.

Did your read the thread on temps where a Dr. states you morning temps may take a good yr. to come up over 97.8 after your on the right dose of armour.

I did, but I'm not sure I agree. If it does, I think it would be rare and not for the majority of folks.

I've also been tracking my temps 3 other times daily, like Dr. Rind suggests, and I'm getting a .4 variance with a 98.2* average. I only have 5 reference points, so it's too early to draw much conclusion other than more armour is in my future