Virilization from HRT - Page 3 - MESO-Rx

kidsxx5 · #31 (**permalink**) 10-17-2005, 11:50 AM

My own doc used HGH to get rid of his potbelly and swears by it. He won't perscribe any for me at this point because he wants to make sure my Estrogen and Insuline are in control before he adds that the mix.

Don't give up on finding a doctor, it took me 5 years to find the one I have. I was tired of doctors that wouldn't hear of any treatments other than what they knew. I wanted a doctor that was going to be agressive in his treatment and he didn't hesitate a second on writing a script for HCG when I asked.

As for being more "manly" looking, haven't noticed anything yet. My wrists are bigger than they were 20 years ago but that's probably because I am 5'8" and up to 230 lbs... unfortunately all fat. Still don't have the energy to start excercising but guess I'll have to force myself.

Axl · #32 (**permalink**) 10-17-2005, 12:13 PM

So gentlemen: should we come to the conclusion that nobody (?) in this forum has had any succes in virilisation (besides some hairgrowth)? Now that is a disappointing conclusion, isn't it?

kidsxx5 · #33 (**permalink**) 10-17-2005, 12:16 PM

Maybe the moral of the story is you have to be going through a sex change in order to get good Testosterone therapy.

Axl · #34 (**permalink**) 10-17-2005, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidsxx5

Maybe the moral of the story is you have to be going through a sex change in order to get good Testosterone therapy.

That's a good one!

But when you come to think of it, it's painfully true....

love_en · #35 (**permalink**) 10-17-2005, 01:59 PM

WL, I sincerely meant that. You are one on the few people who said the way I ended up was not acceptable. I get pissed when someone tells me it is ok to look like an elf. I have no intention of coming off to fool the doctor. It would not work. The doctors know someone's been on by the low LH and FSH. I do not feel my health is some kind of con game. Think I am going to go back to being fatigued and frail only to get shot down again. Sorry, no dice. Otherwise thank you, you are awesome.

Weatherlite · #36 (**permalink**) 10-17-2005, 03:47 PM

Hey, just a thought. There's gotta be a way of educating a lot of docs in a short time....just wish I knew what it was.

Axl · #37 (**permalink**) 10-17-2005, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weatherlite

Hey, just a thought. There's gotta be a way of educating a lot of docs in a short time....just wish I knew what it was.

Yeah there is a way and it has been sais before in this thread: chemically castrate them for one year and let them experience life with low T themselves... And let their patient decide after one year if they deserve TRT or not....

Cryptochid · #38 (**permalink**) 10-17-2005, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axl

Yeah there is a way and it has been sais before in this thread: chemically castrate them for one year and let them experience life with low T themselves... And let their patient decide after one year if they deserve TRT or not....

Axl

Would wouldnt know how close to the truth you are. Its always been in the back of my mind

In Australia, from the early 1970's, prepubertal and adolescent boys with a prediction of 'short stature' (recruitment article, Melbourne Herald, November 1971) were treated with pituitary hormones (human pituitary gonadotrophin, hPG) a fertility drug of "protein", pituitary glands taken from cadavers, infused into short statured boys, causing hyperstimulation (castration) to the testes, and then treated with synthetic androgens to treat the damage, after bilateral orchidopexy.
http://mc2.vicnet.net.au/home/cjdhgh/index.html

lou123 · #39 (**permalink**) 10-17-2005, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RitchieC

I am also like a lot of guys who have posted. More hair on the body, less on the head. I've started taking finesteride to help slow that down.

I put on a lot of weight very quickly. Maybe 10-15 pounds. I've always been one of those guys who puts on muscle and fat very quickly. As far as I can tell, the added weight is of the "good kind" as my muscles look fuller.

Oh and don't forget the sex drive <grin>

Do yourself a HUGE favor and join the Yahoo group Finasteride_side_effects

Propecia is a bad drug, if you used it in the past it may be the cause of your problems

jawbone · #40 (**permalink**) 10-17-2005, 09:25 PM

Lou123,
The problems associated with propecia, were most of the men also on any HRT too? I am curious if HRT pts have as many problems with the med. Or id somehow exo T has a protective measure to it.
BTW I am on it too. So far no problems(gulp)

lou123 · #41 (**permalink**) 10-17-2005, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jawbone

Lou123,
The problems associated with propecia, were most of the men also on any HRT too? I am curious if HRT pts have as many problems with the med. Or id somehow exo T has a protective measure to it.
BTW I am on it too. So far no problems(gulp)

You need to check out the site, i know for some stupid reason they have a delay before they let you in after you sign up and the owner wants you to fill out a survey which i think is BS.

Most of the people on the board are ending up on TRT BECAUSE of propecia. I used Propecia (before I found out it was causing my problems) along with 100mg week of Cyp and it did NOTHING to stop my hair loss. T and Propecia together are also a great combo for bitch tits. Propecia never worked all that well for me and it shut down my T production.

My advice is to get a hair transplant, for about 5K you can get a great one and it will give you MUCH more hair than Propecia ever will

love_en · #42 (**permalink**) 10-18-2005, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axl

Yeah there is a way and it has been sais before in this thread: chemically castrate them for one year and let them experience life with low T themselves... And let their patient decide after one year if they deserve TRT or not....

I guess someone was paying attention when I said elsewhere on this forum that all of the male doctors need to go on a special "cycle". Cyproterone, is an antiandrogen. This is normally prescribed to sex offenders, prostate cancer patients and women with virilization syndromes. In men, this quickly induces profound hypogonadism. Finasteride is suggested to finish the job, no more DHT to ensure errections, male body hair, and the normal mental drive. Swale and some of the more progressive practitioners are excused from this treatment. They would never treat a suffering man so coldly. "your T levels are at the bottom of the range, LH and FSH are also low. That means you are not hypogonadal. I cannot justify treating you." Words from my endo's piehole. Getting tested after discontinuing TRT would not work, because doctors over here suspect steroid abuse if LH and FSH are low.

Weatherlite, as tempting as it is to maim that arrogant endo of mine, I think induced hypogonadism would be a more memorable lesson. I was in no way insulted by what you said. As another member said, you get it. I am offended when people tell me I need to eat more or I need to exercise more. I am tempted to give them a dose of hypogonadism as well. All of my life I have been harassed about my size. It is easier to lose weight than it is to grow and if your hormones are deficient, growth is a monumental undertaking.

No one in my family is really big, but I stand out as the one who does not look well. Until I started injections, the only part of me that had any mass was my soft midsection. A men's small shirt can be too big for me. Now, I am starting to fit my clothes a little better. I no longer nauseate myself, if I look in the mirror without a shirt. I never expected such rapid changes, however I am on a fairly high starting dose. Most of you have doctors that fussed around with 5gm. Androgel, that dose is usually enough to shut down the HPTA and not leave enough T to maintain virilization. Test enanthate usually comes as 250mg/ml, so I frontloaded I cc and do 1/2 cc every week. So simple. Reading Swale's papers on this gave me the knowledge to take control of my life. I wonder what he thinks of my situation.

kidsxx5 · #43 (**permalink**) 10-18-2005, 01:16 PM

I know this is off topic but:

Millions of women take birth control pills (a hormone) and millions of women go on estrogen (a hormone) at menopause. But when men need testosterone (a hormone) the doctors act like it’s some terrible poison that’s going to kill you. I don’t understand the double standard.

love_en · #44 (**permalink**) 10-18-2005, 01:25 PM

Its all about politics. In the 1980's, olympic athletes from Eastern Europe were caught using steroids. In the 1990's one of our own was caught. Until those two events, testosterone was only a male hormone. Deca, Winstrol, and Anavar were medications used to treat patients in catabolic states. I wish baseball players and ex-football players would shut up. If they keep talking, testosterone might become CI or totally illegal to prescribe. I can see that happening with how reactionary our government is.

kidsxx5 · #45 (**permalink**) 10-18-2005, 01:57 PM

This is where I am confused. Anabolic Steroid and Testosterone...are they really the same thing?

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