Alright, Bob, let's get this ball rolling

Not tryin' to jack your thread, but I have a quick question for BS. I'm going to try this ckd starting tomorrow. I planned on using Deca at 600mg/wk to help maintain mass as I don't have a problem with recovery from nandrolone nor do I get "deca dick." I've used DNP in the past and would like to use it again, but I've heard a lot that you should use a 33/33/33 macronutrient ratio when using DNP. Would you make any adjustments to the ckd for someone using DNP? My current stats are 5'5", 213lbs, 16% bf. My goal is just to get as cut as possible in the next 8 weeks (spring break), even if I do lose a little muscle. Thanks for your help.

[Bob Smith]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

Eeeeeewwww!!!! I have to eat what? So that's what, like, spinach, broccoli, green peppers(probably not those)?

Dark green veggies are good choices. Bright veggies (yellow, orange, etc) and citrus fruits are not. Its not that bad, big guy, plus you get to eat twizzlers and pasta for your refeed.

[Bob Smith]

There will always be people that say DNP should only be used with a isocaloric diet (as you stated), or a high carb diet, or low carb, or soup diet, blah blah blah. Personally, I prefer it will a keto diet because, for me, as my carb intake increases, so does the amount I sweat. Will your results be any different if you use a iso vs keto diet, probably not.

Be safe with DNP bro, it can kill you.

[Grizzly]

Well, I wasn't able to make it to the store last night, so no omelette for me this morning. Instead, I ate some corned beef that I cooked last night.

Anyhow, you mentioned twizzlers and pasta for a carb up. Wheat or white pasta or does it matter? Any other foods that would be good. I can do both of those, really. It just might be hard keeping the calories down while eating twizzlers and pasta. I can eat pounds of both...litteraly.

[Grizzly]

I bought green beans, green peppers and broccoli. Are those good vegetable choices?

Also, I got some almonds and pecans. Good or not? What about the negligible carbs in some foods like eggs, nuts, etc.? Do I count them or ignore them? Let's say I end up picking up another 20 carbs from nuts, then should I lessen the other carbs? I suppose the answer to that is obvious, but I just want to make sure.

If I do keep my protein at 200ish will I be in danger of losing muscle or will everythign be kosher?

[Bob Smith]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

I bought green beans, green peppers and broccoli. Are those good vegetable choices?

Also, I got some almonds and pecans. Good or not? What about the negligible carbs in some foods like eggs, nuts, etc.? Do I count them or ignore them? Let's say I end up picking up another 20 carbs from nuts, then should I lessen the other carbs? I suppose the answer to that is obvious, but I just want to make sure.

If I do keep my protein at 200ish will I be in danger of losing muscle or will everythign be kosher?

I Dont know about being kosher, I suppose it depends on what store you shop at.

Count all carbs, regardless of source.

I can eat a ton of Twizzlers but usually start feeling sick after the first pound or pound and a half.

[Grizzly]

Since I was winging it yesterday I didn't realize how hard this is. Today I've been writing it all down and I see I've only eaten 3100 calories today. I guess I'm going to have to drink more oil or something, but is it bad to not make it up to 4000?

[Grizzly]

Oh yeah, I forgot. YOu had said to start the carb up after my workout and then continue it for 24hrs. What if I just started it in the morning? It seems too difficult to do it the other way.

[Bob Smith]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

Oh yeah, I forgot. YOu had said to start the carb up after my workout and then continue it for 24hrs. What if I just started it in the morning? It seems too difficult to do it the other way.

It depends on what time your workout is. You could take in about 50-75g of carbs within a few hours of your workout. That would actually help your refeed.

4k low-carb calories might be difficult, as you found out. Just shoot for 3500-4k and you should be fine. You could add in more oil or maybe a little fattier cut of meat/ground beef, or some nuts.

[Grizzly]

Aside from the mental release, how essential is the carb up? Does it help the diet or just help the fat-inclined, such as myself, deal with not eating anything yummy?

[Bob Smith]

the carb up is 100% mandatory, no exceptions.

[Grizzly]

Ok. Why is that?

I actually decided to carb up before I read this because the sugar plum fairies were dancing in my head. A bag of jumbo vines and a box of pasta should more or less cover it. I may add some more yummies, but we'll see.

[Bob Smith]

Thats not a big enough carb load, actually.

A carb-up helps with various hormone levels, nutrient partitioning, psychologically is it helpful. The main thing are the hormones and partititioning, which in turn helps with fat loss and some muscle gain (or at least prevents/slows loss).

[Grizzly]

Bumping this up for reference sake for all the people who want to know about keto diets.

[res]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

Bumping this up for reference sake for all the people who want to know about keto diets.

Bob def has been a huge help in planning. I was going by the old keto and eating way too much fat during the week and the refeed. actually excited to see how much by bf has dropped in 3 weeks. only 1 of the weeks was done exactly right though. I ate so many damn girl scout cookies the first refeed i almost exploded.

[Grizzly]

Fat during the refeed is bad. However, fat during the week is encouraged. I don't understand what you mean by "too much fat during the week."

That's one of the principles of a keto diet. Kill the carbs and eat plenty of fat to keep energy levels high and also to stave off catabolism.

IIRC, I'm eating between 175-225g of fat/day.

[Bob Smith]

Nope, you can do low fat, low carb and moderately high protein.

Roughly 40g of fat during a refeed is a good amount.

[res]

Originally Posted by Bob Smith

Nope, you can do low fat, low carb and moderately high protein.

Roughly 40g of fat during a refeed is a good amount.

the new keto book recommends during the week, cut maint cals in half. for me that is around 1400 ed. if i keep protein at 1-1.5 gr per lb of lean muscle, that is about 225 grams. plus 25 or so gr of carbs and you have 1000 cal. that leaves 400 cal from fat or 44 grams. Please tell me Bob or grizz if i am going about it all wrong.

[Grizzly]

Originally Posted by Bob Smith

Nope, you can do low fat, low carb and moderately high protein.

Roughly 40g of fat during a refeed is a good amount.

Hmmm, that's interesting. Maybe that works with lighter people only, then. I've done low carb (100ish), high protein and low fat. It came out to about 2500 cal/day. As one would expect, a fair amount of muscle would be lost doing that.

[Bob Smith]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

Hmmm, that's interesting. Maybe that works with lighter people only, then. I've done low carb (100ish), high protein and low fat. It came out to about 2500 cal/day. As one would expect, a fair amount of muscle would be lost doing that.

As one would expect, youre wrong.

res, your diet looks good. I would do 1.25g pro, 50g carbs and the rest (about 40g) as good fats.