supplements waist of money

[twoscoops]

Does anyone else think weight training supplements are a waist of money.
I Know people that spend hunderds of dollars each month on protein shakes,protein bars,vitimins,minirals,creatine,just to name a few. Isn't it just that a supplement. I have been taking all kinds of shit for the past year and am starting to think I am being conned. Some of the products are good quality protien. But I don't think there any better then solid foods,And definently don't taste as good. what's wrong with three squair meals a day. Example a source of meat,vegetables,glass of milk.toast. They sell a protein bar in the grocery store for like thee dollars. I would rather a burger. yes it's fattning. I am not going to waist my money on these products anymore.

[Beefy]

90 % of the products out right now are shit, but some are very worth the money. Creatine is a good example of an effective supplement when it's used proberly, and you can get it dirt cheap on the internet. I think it would be more accurate to say that supplements are not a waste of money, but local supplement retailers will rob you blind everytime. If you are buying locally and paying high prices you are definately wasting your money.

If you can't feel the effects of the supps you're taking I suggest getting off of everything and start with the basics. Eat quality whole foods (more than 3 meals a day, eat at least 5 smaller meals daily) and take a multi-vitamin/mineral every day with a meal. Then add the proper supps to your diet based on what results you are going for. Taking a bunch of random supps just because they're well advertised and seem to be a good product isn't smart. Certain products can work synergistically, while other product combos may cancel each other out or, worse, be dangerous for your health.

What are your fitness goals? I can give you some advice on what supplements would be worth your money if you let me know what you're after (ex. leaning down, bulking, increased endurance, etc.) Also, it would be helpful to know your height, weight, age, trainging program and experience. You'd be suprised how effective some over the counter supps can be when used properly.

Beefy

[twoscoops]

I am 180 lbs 6f2 my goals were to bulk up but have a hell of a time putting on weight. I think I need to gain a lot of weight through eating lots of calories. I think my best bet is to go for strenght given up on being huge. I am the gym 6 days a week. I have yet to find a supplement that justifys there price tag. I don't usualy buy supplement like creatine over the internet wouldn't the shipping cost kill the price. But if you know any good sources I would check them out. Thank.

[Beefy]

First off, unless you are doing an advanced training split, you're probably over working yourself by lifting 6 days a week. I recommend keeping it basic the first 3-4 years of training. Just do basic workouts 3-4 days a week. Your body needs a lot of rest time to recover properly and grow. Too much lifting can actually break down muscle and never let it heal fully. Here's an example week:

Monday: Chest/Back.... 4x8 flat bench press, 4x8 bent over barbell rows,
4x8 incline press, 45 chin ups (do as many as you can in as many sets as it takes),
3x12 cable crossovers, 4x8 seated cable rows (2 sets narrow grip, 2 sets wide)

Tuesday: Rest

Wednesday: Legs....4x10 Squats, 3x10 leg curls, 3x10 leg press, 4x12 calf raises

Thursday: Rest

Friday: Arms/Shoulders....4x10 Alternate Dumbell Curls, 4x10 Cable Tricep Pressdowns,
4x10 Barbell Curls, 3x10 Nosebusters, 3x10 Hammer Curls; 3x10 Seated Dumbell Shoulder Presses, 2x10 Front Dumbell Raises, 2x10 Bent Over Lateral Raises (Dumbell), 3x10 Dumbell Shrugs

Saturday & Sunday: Rest

Pick a weight for each exercise that you can get 10 times, but that's very difficult if not impossible for you to get a full set on your last set. If you're really a hard gainer, cut out any cardio. Eat 3 good whole food meals a day, and supplement with a protein/carb drink like Nitro-Tech in between meals. Make sure your meals are around 800 calories each and the shakes should be at least 300 cals each. Use whole milk for your protein shakes for added cal. Make it a point to either eat or drink a shake every 3-4 hours. Take a multi once a day, and make sure you're getting 8 or more hours of sleep. Do this religiously for 3 weeks and there's no way in hell you won't get results. Then, I would look at adding creatine or other supps to the mix. Right now you just need good training, diet, and rest. You have to be dedicated and consistant.

[kenneth]

check out the training forum and read the stickies at the top. the biggest problem you have right now is your training and the fact that you mentioned 3 meals a day. I would definately read over the "tribute to johnsmith thread" under the 5x5.. it's the first thing listed in the thread. it's about as basic as it gets and is revolved around only your core exercises.

[kenneth]

oh yeah.. I'm not really too sure you would really know whether or not you're a hardgainer at 3 meals a day

[twoscoops]

Thanks for tips I think you have some good points.
Also I was wondering what you guys do to motivate you selves.
Like I said I work out like 6 days a week but then something will happen
and I will miss a day and then I have a hard time dragging my self back in the gym for like a week. Maybe this isn't a problem for some of you but I am a very unmotivate person. Thanks.

[kenneth]

Originally Posted by twoscoops

Thanks for tips I think you have some good points.
Also I was wondering what you guys do to motivate you selves.
Like I said I work out like 6 days a week but then something will happen
and I will miss a day and then I have a hard time dragging my self back in the gym for like a week. Maybe this isn't a problem for some of you but I am a very unmotivate person. Thanks.

lack of motivation? i'd probably guess in your case that it is due to lack of results, no? I mean it sounds like you're telling us that you're not having the best of luck in this world so far. Before I started to see results, there was no motivation, I think that's true for most people, maybe not I don't know. I think once you start to see real results you will be motivated constantly. try not to make a big deal of missing a day, especially since you're already going what most would call TOO MUCH. I still say you'd get much better results from a 3 days/week training program. You say you train 6 days a week, how does the split go? could you post your workout plan and maybe we can help you further, and hopefully in the meantime you'll read over the tribute to johnsmith thread, it is truly loaded with valuable information. Let me know if you read it or not, or if you plan to read it, and lets see what kind of workout you're doing right now when ya got a chance. Have a nice night!

Ken

[Beefy]

Originally Posted by twoscoops

Thanks for tips I think you have some good points.
Also I was wondering what you guys do to motivate you selves.
Like I said I work out like 6 days a week but then something will happen
and I will miss a day and then I have a hard time dragging my self back in the gym for like a week. Maybe this isn't a problem for some of you but I am a very unmotivate person. Thanks.

Kenneth is right, bro. The John Smith 5x5 program is just what you need. Going over board 6 days a week and then laying out for a week is not going to get you any results. Consistancy is the key to getting results. It's just like if I was on a diet and I ate right all week long, then I ate like shit for a week...I wouldn't lose fat. You've got to get serious and ask yourself what you want out of life. There's no magic formula of supps or workouts that make you buff. It's simple. Lift consistantly 3 days a week. Eat right everyday. And get plenty of rest. You will grow. If you don't do all three (lifting, eating, and rest) with consistancy and discipline you won't get much in the way of results. Stop waiting around for someone else to do it for you. Get serious, bro. You'll get results.

[twoscoops]

The above workout routeine Is a good one. I tried It today with chest back. It felt real good. My diet could use a little work. How many daily calories do you recomend for someone who is a hard gainer. I can eat anything and not worry about getting fat.. Thanks. Also let me know If Im posting to much.

[Beefy]

Look, don't worry about posting too much. If I were you I'd hang out in the Nutrition and Training Forums for a while and learn as much as possible. There's really no point in you even looking at the Anabolic Forum because your years away from being ready for steroids.

How old are you? Age has a lot to do with how many calories you burn. I am assuming that you are pretty young, no older than 20, so based on your height and weight and the fact that you said you are a hard gainer I would start out at about 4500 to 5000 calories a day. Honestly, like Kenneth said, you don't really know if you are a hard gainer because you haven't been eating or training right. Just like how earlier I talked about how someone who dieted excellent one week and horrible the next would never really lose any fat, but they might bitch about how they just aren't meant to lose weight or something like that...Never seeing their own fault in the process. You've got to realize that, from what I've read on your posts, it seems you've been going about this the wrong way.

I want you to get results, bro. Keep lifting by the program. You should be sore as hell the morning after your workout. Don't get over zealuos and start working out 6 days a week again. Understand that on those days that you rest, those are actually the days when you are growing. Those days are just as, if not more, important than the workout days. If you think you are wasting a day by not lifting, remember that lifting on a rest day will probably just tear down more muscle and prevent growth. Just keep it simple, 3 days a week. Give it 4-6 weeks and you'll see some results.

As far as diet, go with 4500-5000 cal. per day. You can look at the Nutrition labels on foods and count the calories (be aware of serving size). Eat 4 meals a day @ roughly 800 cals each. Drink protein 3 protein shakes @ roughly 400 cal each. Example:

7 am-4 eggs, 4 slices whole wheat toast w/ butter, large glass of whole milk, bananna
Roughly 1000 cal w/ over 50g of protein
10am-Mix two scoops of whey protein w/ 12 oz. whole milk (even better would be an Meal Replacement Protein w/carbs, but simple whey protein will do)
Roughly 375 cal w/over 45g of protein
12:30pm-Meal #2, eat at least 800 cal. Example: 2 Quater Pounders w/Cheese. You really should eat more "clean" foods, but for now just be sure your eating plenty of calories and protein. Shoot for at least 800 cal. and 40+ grams of protein.
3:30pm-Protein Shake
6pm-Meal #3, pasta with 3 or 4 oz. of meat would be good. Again, go for about 800 total cal and 40+ grams of protein and include meat, eggs, or dairy with every meal.
9pm-Meal #4, I'd go "light" with some cottage cheese and fruit. Avoid fat-free foods while bulking.
Midnite snack(if you wake up)-Drink another protein shake during the night for extra calories.

You can see this is a lot of eating, bro. I doubt if you'd been eating like that you would call yourself a hard gainer. Of course, you could buy some weightgainer to get more calories and save time preparing meals. Let me know what you think of this.

[kenneth]

Originally Posted by Beefy

Look, don't worry about posting too much. If I were you I'd hang out in the Nutrition and Training Forums for a while and learn as much as possible. There's really no point in you even looking at the Anabolic Forum because your years away from being ready for steroids.

How old are you? Age has a lot to do with how many calories you burn. I am assuming that you are pretty young, no older than 20, so based on your height and weight and the fact that you said you are a hard gainer I would start out at about 4500 to 5000 calories a day. Honestly, like Kenneth said, you don't really know if you are a hard gainer because you haven't been eating or training right. Just like how earlier I talked about how someone who dieted excellent one week and horrible the next would never really lose any fat, but they might bitch about how they just aren't meant to lose weight or something like that...Never seeing their own fault in the process. You've got to realize that, from what I've read on your posts, it seems you've been going about this the wrong way.

I want you to get results, bro. Keep lifting by the program. You should be sore as hell the morning after your workout. Don't get over zealuos and start working out 6 days a week again. Understand that on those days that you rest, those are actually the days when you are growing. Those days are just as, if not more, important than the workout days. If you think you are wasting a day by not lifting, remember that lifting on a rest day will probably just tear down more muscle and prevent growth. Just keep it simple, 3 days a week. Give it 4-6 weeks and you'll see some results.

As far as diet, go with 4500-5000 cal. per day. You can look at the Nutrition labels on foods and count the calories (be aware of serving size). Eat 4 meals a day @ roughly 800 cals each. Drink protein 3 protein shakes @ roughly 400 cal each. Example:

7 am-4 eggs, 4 slices whole wheat toast w/ butter, large glass of whole milk, bananna
Roughly 1000 cal w/ over 50g of protein
10am-Mix two scoops of whey protein w/ 12 oz. whole milk (even better would be an Meal Replacement Protein w/carbs, but simple whey protein will do)
Roughly 375 cal w/over 45g of protein
12:30pm-Meal #2, eat at least 800 cal. Example: 2 Quater Pounders w/Cheese. You really should eat more "clean" foods, but for now just be sure your eating plenty of calories and protein. Shoot for at least 800 cal. and 40+ grams of protein.
3:30pm-Protein Shake
6pm-Meal #3, pasta with 3 or 4 oz. of meat would be good. Again, go for about 800 total cal and 40+ grams of protein and include meat, eggs, or dairy with every meal.
9pm-Meal #4, I'd go "light" with some cottage cheese and fruit. Avoid fat-free foods while bulking.
Midnite snack(if you wake up)-Drink another protein shake during the night for extra calories.

You can see this is a lot of eating, bro. I doubt if you'd been eating like that you would call yourself a hard gainer. Of course, you could buy some weightgainer to get more calories and save time preparing meals. Let me know what you think of this.

Like Beefy said, you should hang out in the training and nutrition forums A WHILE. absorb as much information as you can and put it to use.. right now it's going to be about how much you want to help yourself to get this going properly. This is no offense to Beefy's workout plan, but just grabbing what he recommonded and putting it to use will help your workout but it's not going to help your education. There is so much that you need to understand about training so you know what when and why you're doing something, so once again.. read the stickies in the training forum

[Beefy]

This has turned into the Ken and Beefy show, but Ken is right about taking it upon yourself to research and find out what's best for you. What I laid out was very basic. I encourage you to learn as much as possible and change your diet and training accordingly. Meso will always be here for help when you get stuck. Good luck.

[twoscoops]

That diet sounds like a lot of eating. Thy'l wonder about me at work. But who cares you get what you give. The exercise program above was more sets then I'm use to ,Had to go down in weight just to finish all the sets. As far as doing roids right now I should probably lay off for now untill my diet and program is up to par and know more about the stuff Im taking and how my body reacts to it. Otherwise Ill just be waisting my money. As for 800 calories per meal that is a good general guide that shouldn't be to hard to reach as 1 quorter pounder has aproximatley 500 calories. Thanks.

[Beefy]

Good luck, bro. Remember quality foods are best, though. Quarter Pounders are easy and cheap, but they're also high in saturated fat. Get the calories, but go for these kinds of food when possible:
Proteins Carbs Fats
Chicken breast Whole wheat bread Olive Oil
Lean Beef Whole oats or oatmeal Flaxseed Oil
Tuna Whole wheat pasta Smart Balance
Cottage Cheese Beans Nuts
Whey Protein Maltodextrin Coconut Oil(MCTs)
Milk Fresh Fruits Fish Oil Capsuls
Eggs Potatoes

Best of luck, twoscoops. Give it hell. And you're absolutely right about staying away from gear right now. You could easily gain 30 lbs in a year with smart and disciplined training.