Bush is a retard!!!!

[Weatherlite]

No offense taken bro. Everyone has their right to an opinion.

I don't think Bush is a great Pres. I do like him though over any of the alternatives at the moment. That's the key here...he's the lesser of the evils for the most part.

I just wish that now that he doesn't have to worry about being re-elected he would find his balls and wipe the middle east off the face of the earth. Yes, this is an unconventional war but we sure as hell could take over that whole place with conventional means. We need to quit acting like a bunch of pussies and be the lion we're supposed to be!

[Kayz]

Kill their women and children...eliminate their ability to procreate.

[Dionysus]

Originally Posted by Weatherlite

No offense taken bro. Everyone has their right to an opinion.

I don't think Bush is a great Pres. I do like him though over any of the alternatives at the moment. That's the key here...he's the lesser of the evils for the most part.

There is some truth to that, although it is only conjecture.

Originally Posted by Weatherlite

I just wish that now that he doesn't have to worry about being re-elected he would find his balls and wipe the middle east off the face of the earth. Yes, this is an unconventional war but we sure as hell could take over that whole place with conventional means. We need to quit acting like a bunch of pussies and be the lion we're supposed to be!

You do understand that Germany is still paying the price for trying to do the same thing you suggest (but on a smaller scale) to the Jews?

[oldtimer]

Originally Posted by Kayz

Kill their women and children...eliminate their ability to procreate.

I expected that post from Weatherlite, but not from you Kayz.

Sure thing, come kill our children, but stop acting civil when in truth you are no better than the next sucide bomber.

[Kayz]

Originally Posted by oldtimer

I expected that post from Weatherlite, but not from you Kayz.

Sure thing, come kill our children, but stop acting civil when in truth you are no better than the next sucide bomber.

I was just joking Oldtimer...I meant to end that with "J/K". You know I respect you man and would never wish harm on you or your family. I was being a bit cynical in that at this point in time, I don't see either side backing down and I don't see an end to this in sight...so all of the "we should do this and we should do that" talk is ridiculous IMO.

[oldtimer]

Originally Posted by Kayz

I was just joking Oldtimer...I meant to end that with "J/K". You know I respect you man and would never wish harm on you or your family. I was being a bit cynical in that at this point in time, I don't see either side backing down and I don't see an end to this in sight...so all of the "we should do this and we should do that" talk is ridiculous IMO.

Ah, sorry for what I said.

The middle east is a big mess right now. you have Iraq and the civil war in there, then you have Iran and their sucidal agenda (which probably is going to bring the biggest disaster to the region), and the whole Israeli/Palastinian conflict.

I think the main focus for now should be Iran and their nuclear agenda. Not attack them, but certainly do something about it. If they use it against Israel, Israel will retaliate, and basically the entire region would be wiped out. Something like that would probably take the world a couple of hundred years back seeing as there will be wars on whom to claim the oil etc.

[Kayz]

Originally Posted by oldtimer

Ah, sorry for what I said.

The middle east is a big mess right now. you have Iraq and the civil war in there, then you have Iran and their sucidal agenda (which probably is going to bring the biggest disaster to the region), and the whole Israeli/Palastinian conflict.

I think the main focus for now should be Iran and their nuclear agenda. Not attack them, but certainly do something about it. If they use it against Israel, Israel will retaliate, and basically the entire region would be wiped out. Something like that would probably take the world a couple of hundred years back seeing as there will be wars on whom to claim the oil etc.

I agree that Iran is the biggest problem right now and Ahmadinejad needs to be assassinated. Here in teh states, there are lots of reports how the average Iranian does not share his radical viewpoints and fear that his fiery rhetoric may lead to an attack on Iran. If true, then I'd love to see the state of Iran changed from the inside out, but these mullahs and "clerics" rule out of fear. I believe that within the next 12 months, Iran will be attacked by Israel.

And Iran is the sole reason why I do NOT believe the US should leave Iraq right now. If we leave Iraq, the Iranian Republican Guard will walk into Baghdad and take control of the entire country. Iran would control the Middle East oil supply and we'd be paying $8 for a gallon of gas.

[Bob Smith]

OT, what is the Middle East's view on Iran taking the Brits hostage? I think the Brits have clearly shown that their soldiers were in Iraqi waters, not Iranian. I dont believe a word that the Iranian govt says, plus they have a very long history of taking hostages (and usually for no legitimate reason).

[Weatherlite]

Hmmmm....so I seriously have to wonder how many here think I am really as crazy as the Nazis. Just to clarify something, they wanted to wipe out the Jews due to a simple prejudice. I never said wipe out all of the Muslims...just wipe the Middle East off the face of the earth. Same thing? No.

OT knows, as I have backed him up numerous times in past threads, that I understand (for the most part) the Islamic way of thinking. I have had many fine friendships with Muslims both here in the States and in the Middle East. However, something is VERY wrong over there. I can't put a finger on it but the Middle East, IN ITS CURRENT FORM, must go. Perhaps it's because it's singled out as "The Middle East. Perhaps it's the religion. Perhaps it's sand poisoning. I don't know! I do know this though, I fully support and condone the killing of every single Muslim who takes his/her religion and distorts it to the point that they act out and try (or succeed) to kill someone solely because of the religion. Know what else? I say the same thing about anyone who does that. It's just fucking WRONG! Christians who kill because they claim god wants them to? Fry em! Shoot em with a bb gun til they're dead. If a Buddhist came along and said the great Buddha wanted him to kill to create peace.....he should probably die too. So don't just think I hate Muslims because I don't. I'm an equal oppotunity hater. lol

Every religion has been doing this since time began. It's not gonna stop. But I have to ask this kind of thing....in WWII, how did we conduct the war? Did the president worry about what the public thought? Nope. He did what he had to do. Did they NOT bomb a city because innocent women and children might get hurt? Nope, they bombed away anyway. Why don't we now? Some will say it's because we have precision weapons which can help limit collateral damage. I say that's bullshit. They don't do it because no elected official wants to have to face the press and get raked over the coals for carpet bombing, even though that tactic would probably be way more effective. The reason I think it would be more effective is because it would accomplish several things; it would kill a large number of terrorist supporters; it would remove a lot of the infrstructure the enemy uses to support their efforts; it would instill fear into the entire area that if they stay, they will die....if they support the terrorists they will die.....if they resist us they will die. So, the ones who are true followers of Islam would get the hell outta there and live. Those who twist Islam and pervert it would get killed! Problem is either solved or diminished greatly. When peace is finally back we rebuild like we did in Germany and they prosper, just like Germany. AND, they learn a lesson....don't fuck with us.

Would I like a war like that? Overall, NO! I met dozens of Afghanis. Every single one I met (except fot that little girl I was yelling at to run away because she was near a bomb that we were trying to disarm....she didn't like getting yelled at. lol) enjoyed our presence, voiced their opinions freely (know that cause a few of em said they didn't like us any better than the Taliban but they were still polite--that's their way) and were peaceful.

I have met hundreds of Kuwaitis. Same thing. Great people! They hate the perversion of Islam. They treat their women VERY well. The same thing goes for Oman and Bahrain.

Saudi Arabia.....they're a bit different. Not a bad people overall but stricter and more old fashioned when it comes to Islam.

Iraqis. Everything I said about Kuwaitis and Afghanis is true of them as well but add in that they just want to be left alone. They want to go on with life. Period. BUT, almost every single one of them has stated that they prefer the US over Saddam and that they prefer having the US there to help with the Sunni vs Shiite war...which is just icing on top of the terrorist problem.

So what the hell have I just said? There's a tough problem over there and it requires a tough solution. For THEIR benefit overall, I feel we should get the hell out and let them sort it out for themselves. For the WORLD's (and most importantly OUR) benefit we need to stay and finish the job Bush promised we would finish otherwise the possibilty of zealots (whether terrorist or Iranian -- really no difference there) may take over and cause REAL problems worldwide.

[oldtimer]

Originally Posted by Bob Smith

OT, what is the Middle East's view on Iran taking the Brits hostage? I think the Brits have clearly shown that their soldiers were in Iraqi waters, not Iranian. I dont believe a word that the Iranian govt says, plus they have a very long history of taking hostages (and usually for no legitimate reason).

I don't really know what to make of it. On one hand, Iran is clearly ignoring the entire world (except maybe for their supporters from Hezbullah et al) and going ahead with their nuclear agenda, on the other, the last thing they want is to provoke the US or one of its allies with a stunt like that. What they did is an invitation to be attacked by the UK and its allies. I doubt that they have the guts to actually do what they did if it weren't true. I think that if Iran wanted to screw around they would've probably tried to capture US soldiers, especially in retaliation to the Iranian officials who were detained in Iraq sometime ago.

Either way, Iran is doing a stunt, a dangerous one, they are giving the UK/US the green light to attack them with that move.

[oldtimer]

Weatherlight,

The problem is that it's not easy to distinguish who the real enemy is in the area. Believe me, we have struggled here in Saudi with terrorists more than any other country (except maybe Israel). Crackdowns happen every few months, lots and lots of soldiers died in the line of duty (an official program for the families of those soldiers have been implemented, seeing as the death toll was going up rather fast).

The enemy (your enemy, my enemy, Al Qaeda et al) is just an invisible enemy. When I go around in the region and ask people what they think, I don't remember meeting a single person who doesn't strongly condemn terrorism, especially that it affected our lives very negativly (we feel like social outcasts everywhere we go now), yet, bombings still happen. I don't know if it's hypocracy on our part (maybe I did meet a person with a terrorist mentality once but never actually got to know that he/she was, because I was lied to) or if they have their own closed communities and wouldn't mix up with other people or talk about these things with others.

There is a strong feeling of frustration going around. Every time we think we nailed the problem, some fanatic does a stupid stunt and we go back in the "good will" book back to the first page. We try to enhance our image and do our best to show ourselves as good people but terrorists keep blowing it up (pun intended).

[Kayz]

OT, I think the problem that many Americans have with the Middle East is that there appears to be a lack of condemnation from the leaders of many of the MIddle Eastern countries. It seems to me that a suicide bomber can blow up 65 women and children and a reporter can ask a Saudi official if he condemns the attacks and he replies something along the lines of "..well killing innocent people is neve a good thing, but the US is not innocent either...they abused detainees at Abu Ghraib, etc. etc. etc.". The leaders in this part of the world talk out both sides of their mouth and it gives the impression that publicly they decry what the terrorists are doing, but behind closed doors they are smiling ear to ear.

Saudi Arabia spends millions of dollars funding radical madrass', yet they claim to denounce terrorism. That's impossible and that's what us Americans see going on and that's where our frustrations come from.

[Kayz]

But I have to ask this kind of thing....in WWII, how did we conduct the war? Did the president worry about what the public thought? Nope. He did what he had to do. Did they NOT bomb a city because innocent women and children might get hurt? Nope, they bombed away anyway. Why don't we now?

The reason we don't conduct wars like this anymore is because Ted Fucking Kennedy, Nancy Fucking Pelosi, and Hillary fucking Clinton know more about running a military operation than our 3 and 4 star Generals. The politicians in this country belittle and threaten our military commanders every chance they get at Senate hearings on live TV for all the world to see. Our Generals are scared shitless to do what's best for the country for fear of the political backlash they will receive.

The reason we were successful in WW I and WWII (not directly) is General George S. Patton. he was a no nonsense, no bullshit, didn't give a fuck about a politician, stone cold killer whose only concern was for that of his men and winning the war. He did what was best militarily and didn't worry about what was going to be said about him back in Washington. That is what we are lacking today...tough Generals who are willing to do what is necessary to destroy the enemy. These are some great quotes by Patton that go right to the core of why he was successful:

" Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tire, more hungry. Keep punching."

"In war the only sure defense is offense, and the efficiency of the offense depends on the warlike souls of those conducting it."

That last quote says it all.

[Orangejuicer]

Bush works out 5x a week and eats a body builder diet. He was an allstar college athlete and he's been arrested a few times. He is much too bad ass to be a bad president

I have honestly NEVER heard a good argument against George Bush. Most people that argue his presidential ability have 0 to back it up. PEople don't realize that he isn't Dictator Bush or Warlord Bush, it is a large government, and many people make deicisions. The majority of senators and congressmen who voted to enstate the draft were Democrats. When they took hold of the house recently, the first point of order was to retry to enstate the draft. Bush is a bad public speaker(Much better in his second 4) and he's very stubborn. But, he's not a one man be all end all. He has done some great things for this country, and those that know government know that. Yes, the war will always shadow his acheivements, but such is life. He's not looking to be liked. He's looking to lead.
While Bill Clinton was getting his dick sucked in the Oval Office, we had soldiers dying in Somalia, and he refused to act on it. I guess Blow jobs are more important to Dems than Lives. Yes, there are casualties right now...We're at war. Nobody put a gun to the soldiers heads and said join the army, or join the marines. It's by choice. So...to everyone. STFU you accomplish nothing by arguing with point like "Bush is dumb" "Bush Stutters." You sound like idiots.

And BOB smith, the Answer is NOT a 3rd party. It's the dissolution of a bipartisan system. The parties make stupid people make stupid decisions. People should be judged by their belifs, not their colors. Right now, this country needs a Conservative(Actually conservative, not politically conservative) Republican president. But, because Americans are dumb(WHich Bush's educational programs are working to fix) they think that we're at war because of a red president, and when we get a blue president in, everything will be great again. People = Stupid

[jsupstarz]

Originally Posted by Orangejuicer

Bush works out 5x a week and eats a body builder diet. He was an allstar college athlete and he's been arrested a few times. He is much too bad ass to be a bad president

I have honestly NEVER heard a good argument against George Bush. Most people that argue his presidential ability have 0 to back it up. PEople don't realize that he isn't Dictator Bush or Warlord Bush, it is a large government, and many people make deicisions. The majority of senators and congressmen who voted to enstate the draft were Democrats. When they took hold of the house recently, the first point of order was to retry to enstate the draft. Bush is a bad public speaker(Much better in his second 4) and he's very stubborn. But, he's not a one man be all end all. He has done some great things for this country, and those that know government know that. Yes, the war will always shadow his acheivements, but such is life. He's not looking to be liked. He's looking to lead.
While Bill Clinton was getting his dick sucked in the Oval Office, we had soldiers dying in Somalia, and he refused to act on it. I guess Blow jobs are more important to Dems than Lives. Yes, there are casualties right now...We're at war. Nobody put a gun to the soldiers heads and said join the army, or join the marines. It's by choice. So...to everyone. STFU you accomplish nothing by arguing with point like "Bush is dumb" "Bush Stutters." You sound like idiots.

And BOB smith, the Answer is NOT a 3rd party. It's the dissolution of a bipartisan system. The parties make stupid people make stupid decisions. People should be judged by their belifs, not their colors. Right now, this country needs a Conservative(Actually conservative, not politically conservative) Republican president. But, because Americans are dumb(WHich Bush's educational programs are working to fix) they think that we're at war because of a red president, and when we get a blue president in, everything will be great again. People = Stupid

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