Iran?

[Dionysus]

Ooop, will ya look at that we got off topic.

There I go again.

Damn.

[Kayz]

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

Spoken like a true sell out

LOL. I do not owe the American "worker" anything. Teh Japanese PM was right....many Americans are lazy.

[Kayz]

Originally Posted by Dionysus

I think you might be getting a bit dramatic. If you follow a typical Japanese business plan and pay your employees well, give them good benni's and treat them with equal respect, you'll never have a problem finding good Americans to work for you.

It boils down to proper ethics and the belief that the CEO ultimately is no more important than the worker.

The theory goes like so: The white collar worker relys on the blue collar worker to bulid the bridges, roads, farms, buildings, repair his car, furnace, work in his factories, etc.
The Blue collar worker in turn relys on the white collar worker for jobs, medical services, opportunities and so on.

Neither could exist without the other, thus both are equally important.

Now, while the High achievers should be duely compensated, it should not be at the expense of workers benni's and wages. When it does, it upsets the balance of life.

This I believe is something that our government has forgotten, or has chosen to ignore.

I believe in most cases it is plain ol' greed that leads companys to hire illegals...

And greed is wrong no matter how you try to justify it.

I agree with all of this. I don't know where I was trying to justify greed though.

[oldtimer]

In my opinion, Beefy was probably the one who had the best posts in this thread.

For the record, I'm not an American nor do I live there, but his posts are spot on. No sane leader is going to do what is best for other countries on the expense of his own.

Having said the above, I don't see why supporting the Israeli government is in the interest of the US.

[Grizzly]

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

That would be a good start

I guess the whole Land of the Free thing doesn't mean much to you. I guess you would prefer to see capitalism replaced by socialism...since we've seen how well that works.

[Grizzly]

Originally Posted by Dionysus

...oh, and how does that makes me a capitalist? A nationalist perhaps?

It doesn't and that was my sarcastic point. It makes you a socialist or, perhaps, a fascist as a major facet of fascism is gov't control of industry.

[Grizzly]

And if y'all want to stop outsourcing, then stop shopping at Wal-Mart. Stop insisting that everything you buy come in huge amounts for mere pennies. Stop insisting that all of America make 20+/hr but goods should still cost the same.

Know why companies go overseas? YOU! You want $2.50 t-shirts. The only way to make those is to pay Malaysian toddlers in bowls of rice. And then what do you do? You fucking complain that the shirt is a piece of shit that falls apart. No shit! You want good quality stuff, then you're going to have to pay for it.

And how is it any more an issue of greed for a business owner to want to make more money than it is for you to want to save more money(so that you will have more money in your pocket, just like the business owner)?

[Dionysus]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

And if y'all want to stop outsourcing, then stop shopping at Wal-Mart. Stop insisting that everything you buy come in huge amounts for mere pennies. Stop insisting that all of America make 20+/hr but goods should still cost the same.

Know why companies go overseas? YOU! You want $2.50 t-shirts. The only way to make those is to pay Malaysian toddlers in bowls of rice. And then what do you do? You fucking complain that the shirt is a piece of shit that falls apart. No shit! You want good quality stuff, then you're going to have to pay for it.

And how is it any more an issue of greed for a business owner to want to make more money than it is for you to want to save more money(so that you will have more money in your pocket, just like the business owner)?

I agree with this point. I dont mind at all paying fairly for the things I buy.

As far as your statement on greed goes, hey buddy knock yerself out!
Hey, maybe you also hope that CEO's will chop everyones salary down to $2
an hour, so they can get 100 million dollar bonus's, screw the workers medical benifits, those greedy bastards need to buy an Island. Where does it stop? When it effects you? Who will be left to stand up for your rights?

[Dionysus]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

It doesn't and that was my sarcastic point. It makes you a socialist or, perhaps, a fascist as a major facet of fascism is gov't control of industry.

...and you think the Govnmnt doesnt control Industry now? BWaaahaahahaaa!!!

[Dionysus]

Originally Posted by Kayz

I agree with all of this. I don't know where I was trying to justify greed though.

Well, I am glad we found common ground.

I simply opine that if a company were to seek out illegal immigrants soley for the purpose of exploiting them for cheap labor, then that is greed.

If, however, a company had no other applicants to choose from other than illegals, I would hope the company would:

1) Attempt to sponser qualified Immigrants in becoming legal citizens, as a term of employment.

2) Research why they are not attracting a more diverse group, and act on that information.

[Dionysus]

Originally Posted by oldtimer

Having said the above, I don't see why supporting the Israeli government is in the interest of the US.

I'm sorry, can you clarify this question/statement for me?

Are you saying the US does or does not support the Israeli govt?
Or should/shouldnt?

[Grizzly]

Originally Posted by Dionysus

I agree with this point. I dont mind at all paying fairly for the things I buy.

As far as your statement on greed goes, hey buddy knock yerself out!
Hey, maybe you also hope that CEO's will chop everyones salary down to $2
an hour, so they can get 100 million dollar bonus's, screw the workers medical benifits, those greedy bastards need to buy an Island. Where does it stop? When it effects you? Who will be left to stand up for your rights?

Bro, there's not too many jobs that pay less that I make right now, so it's not like I'm speaking from the perspective of an 80k/yr sales manager or anything.

Wages will never drop that far. Why? Because if the people have no money then there's no one to buy shit from the companies which means they're not making any money, thus they'll start paying more.

Henry Ford paid his employees much more than anyone else in his time. NOT because he "cared so deeply about them", but because it insured him of making more money because his employees then bought cars from him.

[ForemanRules]

Originally Posted by Kayz

LOL. I do not owe the American "worker" anything. Teh Japanese PM was right....many Americans are lazy.

Many people in all countries are lazy

[ForemanRules]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

I guess the whole Land of the Free thing doesn't mean much to you. I guess you would prefer to see capitalism replaced by socialism...since we've seen how well that works.

How is " land of the Free" supported by your belief we should out source jobs to other countries with no environmental laws, no child labor laws....ect Is that freedom in your book???

[oldtimer]

Originally Posted by Dionysus

I'm sorry, can you clarify this question/statement for me?

Are you saying the US does or does not support the Israeli govt?
Or should/shouldnt?

The US does support, while it should not.