Montel Williams

[THL]

Originally Posted by swing

Idiots!!! The purposefor creating "exclusionary" sources is due to the unavailability of African-Americans being represented in entertainment. Why was BET created? Because this was the only possible manner for African-Americans to hear their own music, address issues pertinent to their communities, gain a sense of pride in their culture, and most important, because caucasian radio stations were obsessed with caucasian music. The quesion that must be asked is: "Was there a need to create such outlets?" Invariably, the answer is yes. !

Wow, apparently you haven't watched MTV, MTV2 or MTVjams in the last 10 years. I mean come on, I don't mind some rap music, but the vast majority of programing on these channels caters towards black music.

And as far as having opportunities in this country, minorities have it made. There are special grants available for all minorities who want to start a business, go to college, or whatever. People of all races need to start taking responsibility for their own life and stop worrying about every one elses. If you really want something and have the desire and drive to get it, nothing will hold you back, especially not the color of your skin.

[swing]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

FYI- Since 1984, when Vanessa Williams was crowned the first black Miss America, there have been 3 more black women who have won.

Man, for not being an authority, I sure am pretty fucking good!

Oh, I get it...because 5 African-American wore the crown out of more than 70 years of pageant competition the racism couldn't have existed. Likewise, because not every Jew was massacred by Hitler, nor everyone Muslim, Christian, physically disable person, and enemies of the Reich, the Holocaust must be fictitious?

What was the intent behind Rule Number 7. Bottomline is the Black Pageants were created simply because African-American women were long excluded from participation. If I'm incorrect bring forth your evidence!

[Grizzly]

Ok, they were exluded. Rightly so, it's a BEAUTY pageant. (man, I crack myself the fuck up!) They FORCED their way in and now exclude whites from their own pageant. What's so hard to get about this?

Of course, racism exists. You don't like white people and think it's alright to keep them out of your little parties. I guess it's only racism and wrong when you are the one getting excluded. My bad.

[swing]

Originally Posted by THL

Wow, apparently you haven't watched MTV, MTV2 or MTVjams in the last 10 years. I mean come on, I don't mind some rap music, but the vast majority of programing on these channels caters towards black music.

And as far as having opportunities in this country, minorities have it made. There are special grants available for all minorities who want to start a business, go to college, or whatever. People of all races need to start taking responsibility for their own life and stop worrying about every one elses. If you really want something and have the desire and drive to get it, nothing will hold you back, especially not the color of your skin.

Personally, I don't listen to RAP. However, that's neither here or there. Again, BET is a direct result of exclusionary tactics used by the entertainment industry. You say: "why don't whites get a White Peoples Station." Answer: the majority of networks and programming is specifically geared towards white people in America. By default you have WET, and have had one since the beginning of television history.

MTV now plays a considerable amount of Rhythmic American Poetry partially due to the fact that more than 70% per cent of all RAP is purchased by caucasians.

I challenge anyone on this board to prove that most entertainment created by African-Americans for African-Americans were not due to some form of racism.

Concerning the availability of minority grants: Research the dstribution of those "grants." Many of the grants are in the control of white politicians, which never make their way to minorities. Likewise, there are available grants for white people. Why were these grants created? Minorities are still disciminated against by banks, although they may have a comparable credit history and income as their white counter parts.

Read up on the distribution of grants, and bank loans to minorities. A report was just released earlier this year.

[swing]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

Ok, they were exluded. Rightly so, it's a BEAUTY pageant. (man, I crack myself the fuck up!) They FORCED their way in and now exclude whites from their own pageant. What's so hard to get about this?

Of course, racism exists. You don't like white people and think it's alright to keep them out of your little parties. I guess it's only racism and wrong when you are the one getting excluded. My bad.

When were white people prevented from participating in the black beauty pageant?

[Grizzly]

Originally Posted by swing

MTV now plays a considerable amount of Rhythmic American Poetry partially due to the fact that more than 70% per cent of all RAP is purchased by caucasians..

And there you have it. When "your people" quit bitching and moaning and pick themselves the fuck up and get a damned job and then control a considerable amount of purchasing power, then TV will be more reflective of what they want.

You see, boy, television is a business. The function of a business is to make money. I and all of the upper middle class whites I know don't want to hear jive talkin' assbandits on the telie. We want Law and Order: SVU...all damn day! Seriously, that show should be put on a continuous loop. But I digress...

The power of the dollar is clearly evident. Here I am in my nice, safe neighborhood, devoid of grafitti, broken glass and other accoutrements of inner-city life. We do, however, have well kept houses and lawns and streets that can be walked on at any time of the day.

But I have to travel 4 or 5 miles just to get to a liquor store. If I lived in a black neighborhood, I'd only have to walk to the end of the block. Man, you guys have it good! Start putting your purchasing power into something besides Hennesy and maybe you can move up in the world.

[swing]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

And there you have it. When "your people" quit bitching and moaning and pick themselves the fuck up and get a damned job and then control a considerable amount of purchasing power, then TV will be more reflective of what they want.

You see, boy, television is a business. The function of a business is to make money. I and all of the upper middle class whites I know don't want to hear jive talkin' assbandits on the telie. We want Law and Order: SVU...all damn day! Seriously, that show should be put on a continuous loop. But I digress...

The power of the dollar is clearly evident. Here I am in my nice, safe neighborhood, devoid of grafitti, broken glass and other accoutrements of inner-city life. We do, however, have well kept houses and lawns and streets that can be walked on at any time of the day.

But I have to travel 4 or 5 miles just to get to a liquor store. If I lived in a black neighborhood, I'd only have to walk to the end of the block. Man, you guys have it good! Start putting your purchasing power into something besides Hennesy and maybe you can move up in the world.

Wow! Someone is becoming frustrated due to their gross inability to cope with their intellectual inferiority.

You forgot to include the most popular form of entertainment for whites...Reality TV! Boy, you truly are elevating yourselves by watching other ignorant white folks degrade themselves on national television. Takes a bunch of geniuses for that one.

Face it Grizz, your just a stupid hick sitting behind a computer screen. My urine has a higher IQ than you do. No matter what you do, you cannot conceal the fact that you are intellectually destitute. This is why I am superior to you, and will always remain that way. Not only am I educated...but I am highly educated. Guess what? In approximately a year, I'll be teaching your white kids at the university level, and will make them feel like shit as well. I can't wait!

What's truly interesting is the fact that you white folks are whining about African-Americans talking about racism, yet that's exactly what you idiots have been doing on this board. Crying about how you are being discriminated against. What a joke!

[Grizzly]

Originally Posted by swing

Wow! Someone is becoming frustrated due to their gross inability to cope with their intellectual inferiority.

!

Actually, I'm just getting your goat.

[van-man]

Originally Posted by swing

I challenge anyone on this board to prove that most entertainment created by African-Americans for African-Americans were not due to some form of racism.

Oh no you are quite correct here. Only it was the black’s racism toward "white America" that fueled the music’s creation. Now they want to speak of the "war on the streets" and about being "a solider". When really the war is within the hearts and minds of each African-American.
Blacks are and always have been their own worst enemy. It was the tribal chiefs in Africa that first began selling off their own people to Spanish traders, and black people continue to sell each other out for material gain. The sin of white America was to take advantage of the trait of Africans and enrich themselves unethically through the exploitation of blacks. But, even still that is a scapegoat for something that African-American's are not willing nor ready to face, their own behavior.

I don't know or care what your heritage is. I don't care if you are black, white, or whatever. You're inability to level a consistent argument, and your continual use of character attacks tells me that you suffer from the same ailment. You sir are a fool if you continue to harbor such bitterness over something that, in the end affects nothing. You and the people you are defending are trapped in a downward spiral of hate, and unless there is an awakening, all of this will be moot as there will be no African-Americans to argue about.

Happiness is not found in Escalades, bling, flip screen DVD players, or whatever, materialistic mirages you and yours choose to pursue.

[Grizzly]

Originally Posted by swing

My urine has a higher IQ than you do. No matter what you do, you cannot conceal the fact that you are intellectually destitute. !

Care to take dueling IQ tests and place a wager on the outcome?

[van-man]

I don't get how he can keep making these claims of intellectual superiority when he continualy has to resort to character attacks try and bolster some kind of weight to his arguments.

what is it that Foreman used to say.... oh yeah, PATHETIC!

[Grizzly]

Originally Posted by swing

Oh, I get it...because 5 African-American wore the crown out of more than 70 years of pageant competition the racism couldn't have existed.

By your own admission, there are different standards of beauty in the eyes of black people and white people. If the Miss America pageant is run by white people, for white people(again, according to you), then how is it racism to only acknowledge those women who fit into a white person's definition of beauty?

[swing]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

By your own admission, there are different standards of beauty in the eyes of black people and white people. If the Miss America pageant is run by white people, for white people(again, according to you), then how is it racism to only acknowledge those women who fit into a white person's definition of beauty?

How is it racism? Simply by definition alone, "an excessive and irrational belief in or advocacy of the superiority of a given group, people, or nation, on racial grounds alone; race hatred." (Fund & Wagnalls Standard Dictionary).

Furthermore, if ANY group is prevented from participation in ANY event with race being a factor, this is illegal in the United States of America. Hence, the elimination of the Separate but Equal and the implementation of Equal Opportunity laws. If a group has not made an attempt to enter a particular even that is inclusive, then perhaps this may not be construed as racism, as no discrimination has occured. However, as we know, there were attempts to have African-American included in the pageant, and they were rejected, strictly upon factor of race. Again, I refer to Rule number 7.

- You never answered my question: When were caucasians prevented from participating in African-American pageants?

- It would be a pleasure to pit our IQs against one another

[swing]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

By your own admission, there are different standards of beauty in the eyes of black people and white people. If the Miss America pageant is run by white people, for white people(again, according to you), then how is it racism to only acknowledge those women who fit into a white person's definition of beauty?

How is it racism? Simply by definition alone, "an excessive and irrational belief in or advocacy of the superiority of a given group, people, or nation, on racial grounds alone; race hatred." (Fund & Wagnalls Standard Dictionary).

Furthermore, if ANY group is prevented from participation in ANY event with race being a factor, this is illegal in the United States of America. Hence, the elimination of the Separate but Equal and the implementation of Equal Opportunity laws. If a group has not made an attempt to enter into a particular event, then perhaps this may not be construed as racism, as no discrimination has occured. However, as we know, there were attempts to have African-American included in the pageant, and they were rejected, strictly upon the factor of race. Again, I refer to Rule number 7.

- You never answered my question: When were caucasians prevented from participating in African-American pageants?

- It would be a pleasure to pit our IQs against one another

[swing]

Originally Posted by van-man

Oh no you are quite correct here. Only it was the black’s racism toward "white America" that fueled the music’s creation. Now they want to speak of the "war on the streets" and about being "a solider". When really the war is within the hearts and minds of each African-American.
Blacks are and always have been their own worst enemy. It was the tribal chiefs in Africa that first began selling off their own people to Spanish traders, and black people continue to sell each other out for material gain. The sin of white America was to take advantage of the trait of Africans and enrich themselves unethically through the exploitation of blacks. But, even still that is a scapegoat for something that African-American's are not willing nor ready to face, their own behavior.

I don't know or care what your heritage is. I don't care if you are black, white, or whatever. You're inability to level a consistent argument, and your continual use of character attacks tells me that you suffer from the same ailment. You sir are a fool if you continue to harbor such bitterness over something that, in the end affects nothing. You and the people you are defending are trapped in a downward spiral of hate, and unless there is an awakening, all of this will be moot as there will be no African-Americans to argue about.

Happiness is not found in Escalades, bling, flip screen DVD players, or whatever, materialistic mirages you and yours choose to pursue.

Where is your evidence that fueled the creation of African-American music? Again, a gross display of ignorance. Historically, African-American music has its roots in African music and evolved into the various forms we have presently, i.e. Jazz, Blues, R&B, and RAP. African-Americans have a long withstanding history of permitting caucasians into their clubs and music.

Also, the first Africans sold into slavery were to the Portuguese, not the Spaniards (you incorrectly referred to them as Spanish-which is the language).

Addressing the issue of slavery as practiced in Africa: " But slavery in Africa was not rooted in the horrid squalor the word suggests to us today..." "In many African societies, enslavement had rules that dictated how the slaves were to be treated. They were required to be part of the family, either through adoption or marriage. Every slave was entitled to food, clothing, shelter. Slave owners had to be responsive and accessible..."

"Slaves were used to facilitate the development and distribution of goods. However, these "domestic" slaves could own and manage property, take a husband and wife, own slaves themselves, or inherent substantial bounty at the discretion of death of the master. Almost immediately upon enslavement, captives could set their sights on the possibilities of eventual freedom."

"So domestic slaves, far from being considered faceless property, were often adopted into the family, ultimately enjoying privileges afforded their owners' offspring. The families of slave and owner often commingled and intermarried, leading to a further blurring of anticipated roles."

- excerpts taken from "Africans in America: America's Journey through Slavery" by Charles Johnso, Patricia Smith, and the WGBH Series Research Team.