UAW might not be the problem after all

[dave48326]

Originally Posted by Bob Smith

They arent the only ones blamed. Playboy is definitely a liberal magazine, so its no surprise that they would be against management. There is enough blame to go around on why the American automakers are a dying breed. The unions and their inflated workers salaries (Id like $60k/yr to screw in 4 bolts), the incredible cost of post-retirement health coverage, car designs that no one wants, mediocre build quality, they all play a role.

Management is liable for agreeing to the contracts, though its unlikely that they had much choice. If the UAW goes on strike, then the companies will fall apart very quickly and everyone loses their job.

The American automakers are dying a slow death at the hands of the Japs and Koreans. Since about 1975, the Americans have gone from a combined market share of 75% down to its current level of about 55%. They simply cant compete with the quality and styling of "foreign" cars (that are usually made in America).

Hi all,

Since I am a union autoworker employed by GM , I feel it very fitting that I reply.

First, I have never, even with overtime, made $60 K a year. Not even gross income. Second, I would like to invite anyone who thinks I screw in onky 4 bolts to come and do my job or any job on the assembly line for a week and then still say that. We build more vehicles every year so our individual workload increases due to our shrinking numbers. Next, unionized auto workers have been giving things back to management for years . Are we to blame that they design cars that only my 85 year-old mom would like? No. Are we to blame that up until recently that the top brass have rewarded their incompetence very handsomely? I think not.

Quality? As in the military, we must, by contract , obey a direct order given by management or face discipline. When management gives us the order to "ship it" knowing full well there is a problem with the vehicle or component, WE MUST OBEY and let it keep going without a fix. Design? It takes something just short of an act of Congress to get GM to redesign anything to go together with less chance for defects. In the eyes of engineers and management, we on the line know absolutely nothing since we only assemble their fiascos on a daily basis. Don't blame labor for Pontiac Aztek or GM's infamous diesel engines of the 1980's.

I can say with confidence that the vast majority of Joe and Jane Lunchbuckets that work in the assembly line are deeply committed to building a GREAT product. We just wish we could get GM management to share our sense of urgency.

'Nuff said and peace to all.

Dave

[Dionysus]

Thank you Dave for a great post.

Seems we are surrounded by union bashers around here. They tend to forget, or just dont know history, that without unions working conditions all over america would be shit...

To bad they dont make "juice" for the brain.

[Kayz]

Originally Posted by Dionysus

Thank you Dave for a great post.

Seems we are surrounded by union bashers around here. They tend to forget, or just dont know history, that without unions working conditions all over america would be shit...

To bad they dont make "juice" for the brain.

Nobody here at Meso has said that unions were worthless from day one. I think we can all agree that the original purpose of unions, which was to create safe working conditions and prevent child labor abuse, were noble and justified. During the Depression, conditions were horrible and needed to be remedied. Unions helped accomplish that...but they have overstepped their bounds in the past 20 years.

We now have very strict federal laws that regulate all of these things. As an employer in a highly regulated industry (probably the most heavily regulated), I know these laws well. There is no way in hell that I could force my workers to work without proper safety equipment just to save a few bucks...I'd be shut down within 24 hours. We do not need some union leader who wants to take $25 from your check each week telling us how to run our business.

[Dionysus]

Originally Posted by Kayz

Nobody here at Meso has said that unions were worthless from day one. I think we can all agree that the original purpose of unions, which was to create safe working conditions and prevent child labor abuse, were noble and justified. During the Depression, conditions were horrible and needed to be remedied. Unions helped accomplish that...but they have overstepped their bounds in the past 20 years.

We now have very strict federal laws that regulate all of these things. As an employer in a highly regulated industry (probably the most heavily regulated), I know these laws well. There is no way in hell that I could force my workers to work without proper safety equipment just to save a few bucks...I'd be shut down within 24 hours. We do not need some union leader who wants to take $25 from your check each week telling us how to run our business.

Kayz, I'd gladly pay $125 dollars a week to keep evil elitist tyrannical capitalist pig bosses like you off my back and slap you back down to reality:
Your business ain't shit without workers!

(Just kidding, chill out and take a deep breath...lol)


Its true some unions have done damage to unions reputation as a whole. But we cant throw out the whole bushel because of one or two bad apples.

[Kayz]

Originally Posted by Dionysus

Kayz, I'd gladly pay $125 dollars a week to keep evil elitist tyrannical capitalist pig bosses like you off my back and slap you back down to reality:
Your business ain't shit without workers!

(Just kidding, chill out and take a deep breath...lol)


Its true some unions have done damage to unions reputation as a whole. But we cant throw out the whole bushel because of one or two bad apples.

LOL...

IMO, I think it's more than just a few bad apples though. Unions in general have such a negative stigma associated with them anymore it's hard for them to be taken seriously. Many Americans make much less than union workers and they get sick and tired of hearing the constant bitching on the news every single night. I live in the heartland of unions (Ford, GM, Delphi....etc) and it is never-ending!!! Someone is always unhappy and is always threatening a strike.

You are right that I am shit without my workers. On the flipside, without employers such as myself there are no jobs to be had. And one other thing...it is much easier for me to find a warm body than it is for most people to find a job.

[Bob Smith]

"Detroit Pays Employees Not to Work"

Front page of the Wall Street Journal today (March 1) was an article about the 15,000 union autoworkers that get paid to do nothing. Literally nothing. One guy quoted in the article makes $65,000 with full health and retirement benefits to sit around and f*ck off all day long. This happens at GM, Delphi and the other automakers (GM and Delphi have the most "unworked" workers).

All this lack of productivity costs these companies $2 billion per year. On average, it costs about $100k per employee to have them take "How to do crossword puzzles" classes, and watch videos like Modern Marvels. Some choose to volunteer in the community rather than sitting in the "rubber room," but some choose to sit in a 400-person room and do jack shit for 8 1/2 hours every day.

GM alone paid upwards of $900 million in 2005 for these "workers."

[Kayz]

Veerrryyyy interesting.....

Consumer Reports' Top Car Picks All Japanese EMBARGOED

[Kayz]

Originally Posted by Bob Smith

"Detroit Pays Employees Not to Work"

Front page of the Wall Street Journal today (March 1) was an article about the 15,000 union autoworkers that get paid to do nothing. Literally nothing. One guy quoted in the article makes $65,000 with full health and retirement benefits to sit around and f*ck off all day long. This happens at GM, Delphi and the other automakers (GM and Delphi have the most "unworked" workers).

All this lack of productivity costs these companies $2 billion per year. On average, it costs about $100k per employee to have them take "How to do crossword puzzles" classes, and watch videos like Modern Marvels. Some choose to volunteer in the community rather than sitting in the "rubber room," but some choose to sit in a 400-person room and do jack shit for 8 1/2 hours every day.

GM alone paid upwards of $900 million in 2005 for these "workers."

This is very true. GM has a separate fund set up to pay these individuals. If I remember correctly, it's due to the fact that GM does not have enough work for them to do, but the Union contract says GM has to pay them no matter what. However, there are some rules involved Bob...so don't get too worked up:

1) They have to show up everyday.

[THL]

Originally Posted by Kayz

This is very true. GM has a separate fund set up to pay these individuals. If I remember correctly, it's due to the fact that GM does not have enough work for them to do, but the Union contract says GM has to pay them no matter what. However, there are some rules involved Bob...so don't get too worked up:

1) They have to show up everyday.

Could some one tell me where I can get an application for this job?

[Kayz]

Originally Posted by THL

Could some one tell me where I can get an application for this job?

LMFAO....I thought Grizz would have been the first one to inquire.

I think you have to go down to the welfare office and tell them that your 3-legged dog needs a hip replacement.

[Grizzly]

Originally Posted by Kayz

You are right that I am shit without my workers. On the flipside, without employers such as myself there are no jobs to be had. And one other thing...it is much easier for me to find a warm body than it is for most people to find a job.

Good point, kayz, and one I would have made if I'd have gotten here first. Yes, it's true, the workers play a very important and vital role in the success of a company. HOWEVER, there's a whole lot more people than there are jobs, which means that he who provides the job is a lot more important and secure than the worker. If I walk out today, someone else walks in tomorrow. I, on the other hand, would have to spend a few weeks trying to get a new job.

[sc redneck]

95 honda accord ex 277.000 with original spark plugs.. knock on wood.. oil change every 4000.

[sc redneck]

hey dave48326,, we are feeling a big impact from slow sales at GM and Ford. 70% of our biz is O.E sales. They want us to take a 38% pay cut or close er down... Our contract is also up, below is the latest.

3:14 pm | Continental Tire workers OK strike
GILLIAN MAY-LIAN WEE
gwee@charlotteobserver.com
Union members at Continental Tire North America Inc. have authorized the group's leaders to call a strike, Mark Cieslikowski, president of the plant's United Steelworkers Local 850, said today.
But, union leaders have "a long way to go" before calling a strike, as they are still trying to negotiate a new labor contract with the company's managers, Cieslikowski said.
The union's contract expires April 30. Two years ago, Continental stopped production under similar circumstances at a unionized factory in Kentucky.
Continental recently said it might "indefinitely suspend" production at its Charlotte plant in the fall, unless workers agree to steep pay and benefit cuts. The company has said it considers its Charlotte plant is its costliest.
Continental is one of Charlotte's largest manufacturers and employs about 1,000. It's the North American unit of German automotive giant Continental AG, the world's No. 4 tire maker.
Last month, a first round of layoffs, affecting 140 workers, took place.

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[sc redneck]

Oh, I forgot to mention that conti is finishing up a plant in Brazil and has its mexican plant up and running. We were told last year we would be shut down in 07 so why wait! Shut this bitch down now and lets move on

[Bob Smith]

Since this thread is all about union folks, I thought I would share a personal story from this week.

I am completely redoing my bathroom. Every wall is torn down to the studs, the floor is being replaced, everything will be brand new. I need a plumber to do some pretty simple thing that shouldnt take any more than about 6 hours. Got an estimate from one guy for $1900. I about fell out of my chair when I heard that. Got another estimate today. Exact same specs for the job - $750. Both plumbers have over 20 years experience and are considered master plumbers. The only difference, the first guy is union and the second guy is not.

Bottom line, I will never hire a union contractor to work for me. The union guy must be figuring about $250/hr for labor and 4 thirty-minute breaks during the day plus an hour for lunch.