What's up with Islam?

[Kayz]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

LOL Is this your stock response? Twice in the same thread. Don't forget to tell Kayz the same thing. We don't want him to feel left out.

What was that Grizz....I didn't hear ya'. I was screaming at my g/f to bring me my fucking dinner!!!

[CyniQ]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

The only flaw in your premise, Cyniq, is that those beliefs predate Christianity. How could the Celtic mythos be influenced by Christianity if it wasn't invented yet. And, yes, I do mean "invented".

Now let's say, hypothetically, that it even had been invented already. If it hadn't reach the Celtic peoples yet, then it still couldn't have influenced their myths even if the entire rest of the world had heard of it.

Furthermore, what is the difference between shape shifting of the human form and turning water into wine. Is that not a form of elemental shifting?

And don't forget, the same scorn you as an "enlightened" Christian heap upon pagans will be heaped upon thee when rationality or, yuck, another religion becomes the norm

Number one. If Adam and Eve are, in fact, the origin of mankind. Then NOTHING predates Adam and Eve. Number two. The main difference between myth and bible-based religion is natural and historic support for the doctrine. In other words, mythology says, sacrifice virgins to Apollos because he brings the sun and if you don't, he won't bring it anymore. We now know that is not true. The bible explains that the Isrealites had to participate in animal sacrifice as a reminder that they were sinful and had to look to God for absolution. There is nothing that we know today that discredits that. Billions of people world wide attempt to make their peace with God everyday. and... If you want to go over intelligent design again, we can. But, the way I tell it, it holds as much water as evolution, if not more.

[Grizzly]

Hey, my great, great, great, great, great grandparents were here a long time before me. They predate me. Fact of the matter is I have no clue in the slightest as to who they are. Same is true for Adam and Eve. Without the story being known, whether it happened first or not(the answer is not ), then they could not have been influenced by it.

[CyniQ]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

Hey, my great, great, great, great, great grandparents were here a long time before me. They predate me. Fact of the matter is I have no clue in the slightest as to who they are. Same is true for Adam and Eve. Without the story being known, whether it happened first or not(the answer is not ), then they could not have been influenced by it.

You're slippin' bro... Multitasking? I don't think that even makes sense. Are you saying that since you don't know anything about your gparents that the Celts couldn't have known about Adam and Eve??

If you are. Then that's a ridiculous arguement. Why does every civilization on the face of the earth have a legend about a world wide flood? It happened long before any of them existed, if it happened at all. Virtually every (virtually, because I obviously haven't studied them all. I've only got a public education you know. ) civilization has a legend similar to that of Adam and Eve about the origin of mankind as well. How do explain any legend, or ancestral anecdote at all?

[Grizzly]

Actually, in my exploration of myths, Adam and Eve is pretty much seen only in Judeo-Christian religions. The natives of the Americas, navajo, aztec, mayans, etc., held beliefs that people were fashioned out of corn or mud and shit like that and just plopped down. Maybe that's sort of similar, but I don't think too similar.

Yes, that's pretty much what I"m saying. You seem to be saying that the Celtic religions ripped off their mythos from the Bible. They couldn't have done that if they'd never read the bible is what I'm saying.

[CyniQ]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

Actually, in my exploration of myths, Adam and Eve is pretty much seen only in Judeo-Christian religions. The natives of the Americas, navajo, aztec, mayans, etc., held beliefs that people were fashioned out of corn or mud and shit like that and just plopped down. Maybe that's sort of similar, but I don't think too similar.

Yes, that's pretty much what I"m saying. You seem to be saying that the Celtic religions ripped off their mythos from the Bible. They couldn't have done that if they'd never read the bible is what I'm saying.

The bible was likely oral tradition before it was written. According to the bible itself, it's inspired by God. So Moses didn't necessarily have to be familiar with any of the things he wrote. Maybe God just told him. But that's not the way inspiration works, that's dictation. And the Bible doesn't claim to be dictated. Regardless, we MUST have a common ancestry. Otherwise there's really no way to explain the similarities between civilizations on opposite ends of the globe. Take the temples of the Incas and Mayans in SA and compare them to the Pyramids in Egypt. How could people who have never met construct monuments so similarly. Both in design and manufacture.

[Grizzly]

Common ancestry, specifically Garden of Eden ancestry, doesn't explain that at all. The fact that people incapable of long distance sea travel existed that far apart totally puts a kink in the Garden of Eden theory. How'd some dudes from Africa make it all the way to Brazil without the capacity to actually travel that far? Hell, the native African peoples STILL haven't figured out how to make a boat bigger than a canoe.

[CyniQ]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

Common ancestry, specifically Garden of Eden ancestry, doesn't explain that at all. The fact that people incapable of long distance sea travel existed that far apart totally puts a kink in the Garden of Eden theory. How'd some dudes from Africa make it all the way to Brazil without the capacity to actually travel that far? Hell, the native African peoples STILL haven't figured out how to make a boat bigger than a canoe.

It doesn't kink anything at all. According to scripture, man was created in the G of E, right? Ok. Fast forward to the tower of Babel. People build a big tower to reach to heaven. God confuses their languages, and scatters them throughout the globe. It doesn't say by what means he scattered them. I know, I know. Sounds like ancient mans way of explaining the misunderstood with divinity. BUT. It does explain why there are architectural similarities on opposite ends of the world.

and you better respond to my post on outlaw you bastard!

[Grizzly]

Don't forget it sounds like an engineering impossibility. So far we have discovered that all the way to the edge of the galaxy and even beyond into other galaxies is still too short of a distance to travel to make it to Heaven. And we did this with telecscopes and space suits. How did the Babylonians or whoever manage to breathe while building that tower in space?

[CyniQ]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

Don't forget it sounds like an engineering impossibility. So far we have discovered that all the way to the edge of the galaxy and even beyond into other galaxies is still too short of a distance to travel to make it to Heaven. And we did this with telecscopes and space suits. How did the Babylonians or whoever manage to breathe while building that tower in space?

LOL. you fucker. They were TRYING to build it to heaven. They obviously did not make it. The bible doesn't say how far they got. It pissed God off that they were trying. Good job avoiding the actual issue.

And avoiding my post on Outlaw! It was funny! Admit it!

[Grizzly]

I side with your original thing about it being typical mythos to explain the unexplained, then. I guess he just picked them up and threw the peoples like dice.

Usually, I'm right on top of it and I'll probably be like, "DUHHHH!!!" when you explain it, but I'm missing your allusion on outlaw, bro.

[CyniQ]

"Philosophy studies the fundamental nature of existence, of man, and of man's relationship to existence."

"To grasp the axiom that existence exists, means to grasp the fact that nature, i.e., the universe as a whole, cannot be created or annihilated, that it cannot come into or go out of existence."

Those are quotes from Philosophy: Who needs it

Get it now??

[Grizzly]

See, I'm going "DUH!!!!". I knew the end reference, but I haven't read that one. Shhhhh, don't the the ARI on me.

[CyniQ]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

See, I'm going "DUH!!!!". I knew the end reference, but I haven't read that one. Shhhhh, don't the the ARI on me.

Think they'll revoke your membership card if they find out you haven't read it??

[Grizzly]

I don't know, but I keep trying looking at the website hoping for a decent position to open up so I can gain employment there. Maybe I'll shoot them an e-mail and mention how I want to freelance at the local Ju. Co. and teach an Objectivist course. Maybe they'll train me for free.