Working theory of a government

[Grizzly]

Alright, let's see how this post comes out. It is sure to be jumbled, but I'm sure we can make something good out of the vomit I now shall spew...

What is the purpose of a government? Perhaps I don't mean to ask the purpose, as I understand the purpose, but what is the job, duty, role, responsibility of government and what is that which should be beyond its scope?

I have said many times that the government should have two roles. One is to protect me from you and you from me and the other role is to protect us from "them". Meaning the government's job is to protect my life and my property from those who wish to deprive me of it and also to protect our nation as a whole from invasion by other nations.

This, I believe, is the core of government responsibility. I also pretty much believe that it should be the entirety of government responsibility. However, there are a few things the gov't does which may also be beneficial. I think its role in providing education is good. I also like student loans. I think infrastructure is also a relatively important function. I mean, how else are roads going to be built?

I do however and in no uncertain terms think that our government, and that of every other nation ever to exist, has SEVERLY overstepped its bounds. I am not of the opinion that it is the government's job to regulate morality. Included in this are drug laws, sex laws and what the fuck I can watch on TV laws (lol).

Drug laws is how I originally came up with the idea for this post. Let's say that the gov't's job is to protect me from you and us from them. I'm sure we can all agree on this.

As such, thou shalt not kill and thou shalt not steal. Did I miss anything important?(seriously, it's an actual question) So, and here's where the drug laws come into play, we have a law against murder and a law against theft. As such, we also have designated penalties for both. That being imprisonment and/or death(of which I'm a HUGE fan, by the way).

I can understand the imetus for some drug laws. Drugs "cause" some people to commit murder and theft in order to support their habits. Thus, by criminalizing drugs we stop their use which stops the comission of drug induced murder and theft. LMMFAO! hah, yeah right!

Anyway, I don't understand why we need to criminalize drugs. If we already have laws dictating punishment for the byproduct of SOME people's drug use, then why create another law? The laws restricting their use not only don't stop but INCREASE their usage(that's another discussion), so why not just use the laws on the books to punish the acts that drugs "caused"?

Similarly, I fell the same regarding DUI. It's already illegal to kill someone by running them over with your car. Do we really need to make it illegal to drive drunk? Has it or will it ever stop people from driving drunk? Or does it only serve to increase the amount of "criminals" and people who are serving time for relatively harmless offenses?

This, however, brings up the question of whether the gov't should criminalize behaviors that may lead to the comission of the formerly mention murder and theft in an effort to stop the murder and theft from occuring. I say most certainly not! Unequivocably NO!

So, then, what is the purpose of a government?

Like I said, this post would be a huge bunch of shit that needs to be sorted out. I would really like to come up with a working theory of government. What is its job and what should be left to the invidual? Is education and infrastructure really a necessary role of the gov't? Is the restriction of my civil liberties its job? If my right to do that which I chose with my body may cause me to harm another, is it then the gov't's job/ability to restrict my rights as an individual?

What do you think?

[Beefy]

Damn, bro. I got a headache just thinking about all of that shit.lol

I agree with you about how government has over stepped its boundaries and grown bigger. Our government has way too much power over indiviuals.

Having said that, I'd still take bullet for the good ole USA.

[Kayz]

Grizz, that is one of the most well thought out posts I've ever read here at Meso. Good job bro, and I totally agree with you on pretty much everything you said.

I was listening to a conservative talk radio show a few months ago and they had a retired police officer on who had founded a group of policeman who favor the legalization of drugs. He gave a very compelling argument to support his case and I was really impressed.

The most interesting part of his "speech" though was when he talked about meeting with one of the police commissioners in the Netherlands, where drugs are legal. The cop on the show says that the US should model their new policy after that of the Netherlands/Holland.

The radio talk show host asked the cop "well, what do we do when someone hits and kills a pedestrian while high??" The cop responded "we charge them with vehicular homicide". The talk show host, trying to get the best of the cop, then asked: "what do we do if a teenager is driving down the road smoking a joint?". The cop replied "we would do the same thing as if the teenager was driving down the road with a bottle of liquor in his hand.....we give him a DUI".

I thought to myself "wow, that is such a logical and simple answer it is fucking hilarious". The guy made so much sense.

Like you, I think the federal government has a role in education, transportation infrastructure, and most importantly preservation of American lives! I do not think the government is responsible for providing jobs or health care to all Americans.

[Grizzly]

Of course not! Health care, you could almost make a decent argument for. Almost...if you were a fucking moocher. Being the dick I am, I realize and accept the fact that the continuation of life is not promised to anyone. As such, if you want to live longer than your fat clogged heart wants to allow, it's YOUR responsiblity to figure out how. Not mine, which is what it would be if the gov't taxed me in order to pay for your health care. (that was probably a pretty shitty argument, but I'm not in the mood for that one. )

How can gov't provide people with jobs? The only way it can do that is to employ people itself. In order to pay the people it employs, it has to tax the citizens. If citizens are the employees of the gov't, then we would, in essence, be paying ourselves. All in all, it just doesn't work.

[Kayz]

Here is something that will piss you off. In Pennsylvania, all of the highway toll booth workers went on strike this past weekend (the busiest travel weekend of the year) because their contract "was not fair".

Here is the kicker though: these guys start out at $18.21/hour with full benefits!! The average wage for these workers was over $21/hour!! And all they do is fucking sit on there fat ass and press a button to open a little fucking gate....simply amazing.

I also don't think the government should determine what is "moral and immoral". When you think about it, who has really made those choices?? Society in general has.

I mean, why is "fuck, shit, cock, pussy" deemed to be "bad" words??? IMO, they are just sounds that one makes, but over time society has decided that these words are derogatory in nature. It just doesn't make sense to me.

[chris gordon]

definitely the govt has over stepped its boundaries....however getting your drunk ass behind the wheel of a car is blatant disregard for the welfare of others...its fine if you dont give a fuck about yourself....but if you endanger my life, well then id just as soon remove another piece of shit irresposible fuck from the face of the earth...i am sort of along with the libertarians here....leave me alone, ill leave you alone.....

[Kayz]

I think teenagers should be taught how to drive drunk. Lets make it part of the drivers education curriculum!

[Beefy]

I know you were joking, but to make a point, if you think teenagers should be taught how to drive drunk, do you think we (our government) should teach teenagers how to fuck anybody that's willing with no consequences. That's what some people consider the whole codoms for high schoolers program were schools provide kids with condoms so they can fuck more without making so many babies. They still run the risk of STDs and shit, though.

Personally, I don't support government initiatives like that. I don't want some fucking high school teacher giving my daughter condoms. Shit like that over steps the parent's right/responsibility to protect their kids from bad things. It's up to each parent to decide what's bad. Others may not care if their kids are out fucking the neighborhood, but I know how I feel about mine.

Just another example of how the government has too much power.

[freak]

Damn your Grizziness, your on a roll. Let me guess,you haven't had any sex in awhile,no? Your head is all clear without day to day female issues in the way and your smart as a whip.
Good thread,I agree with you guys.

[Kayz]

Originally Posted by Beefy

I know you were joking, but to make a point, if you think teenagers should be taught how to drive drunk, do you think we (our government) should teach teenagers how to fuck anybody that's willing with no consequences. That's what some people consider the whole codoms for high schoolers program were schools provide kids with condoms so they can fuck more without making so many babies. They still run the risk of STDs and shit, though.

Personally, I don't support government initiatives like that. I don't want some fucking high school teacher giving my daughter condoms. Shit like that over steps the parent's right/responsibility to protect their kids from bad things. It's up to each parent to decide what's bad. Others may not care if their kids are out fucking the neighborhood, but I know how I feel about mine.

Just another example of how the government has too much power.

Yes I was joking, and I agree with you. Parents need to be the ones to guide their children thru the "difficult teen years" and counsel them on what is right and what is wrong. But at the end of the day all you can do is hope your kids listen to you as you cannot be there every minute of every day.

What really gets me is parents who are so naive that they honestly think that every kid is drinking and fucking except their own. I'd bet 75% of parents would be absolutely shocked if they actually knew what their kids did when they leave the house.

[Grizzly]

Tough call on what day it was...but the answer is yesterday which means I'm drving today. Hoorah!

[Grizzly]

Damnit, I know we have some socialist, democrats, union workers and other moochers with a sense of entitlement. Certainly y'all have ideas of what a gov't should do. Doesn't anyone want to play?

[chris gordon]

we all have to look at the intelligence and responsibility of the average american....neither one is very good....everyone talks about education....noone goes to their childs PTA or school board meetings though....everyone is too wrapped up in their own stuff, they believe its the govts job to teach and be responsible for every little thing their children do...

how many americans exercise their right to vote? it is our duty as american citizens to change the govt. when it no longer serves the people, by any means necesary.... hence Lincolns statement " The ballot box, or the cartridge box"

but most idiots would rather watch some illiterate fuckers throw a ball around for 2hours, or see if Britney Spears is still married, combine this with the complete lack of actual news by the media...basically we are fucked, our govt has over stepped its boundaries because WE LET IT...sometimes i see globalists conspiracy written allover this shit...fuck it

[Grizzly]

Originally Posted by chris gordon

but most idiots would rather watch some illiterate fuckers throw a ball around for 2hours, or see if Britney Spears is still married, combine this with the complete lack of actual news by the media...basically we are fucked, our govt has over stepped its boundaries because WE LET IT...sometimes i see globalists conspiracy written allover this shit...fuck it

Amen! We certainly do allow it. I often wonder how prohibition(both drugs and alcohol) was ever pulled off. Didn't people feel like taking up arms to protect their liberties? I do.

[MACHI]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

Of course not! Health care, you could almost make a decent argument for. Almost...if you were a fucking moocher. Being the dick I am, I realize and accept the fact that the continuation of life is not promised to anyone. As such, if you want to live longer than your fat clogged heart wants to allow, it's YOUR responsiblity to figure out how. Not mine, which is what it would be if the gov't taxed me in order to pay for your health care. (that was probably a pretty shitty argument, but I'm not in the mood for that one. )

How can gov't provide people with jobs? The only way it can do that is to employ people itself. In order to pay the people it employs, it has to tax the citizens. If citizens are the employees of the gov't, then we would, in essence, be paying ourselves. All in all, it just doesn't work.

I don't see how healthcare is different than education.

Economically speaking your PRODUCTIVITY as an individual determines the quality of BOTH the education and the healthcare you recieve in this real world that we live in. Griz and Kayz are you guys telling me that you would rather supplement the non-taxpayers education and not his health? If the poor rural or inner city child cannot aford a doctors visit and is not (by your views) entitled to one as a US citizen why should he/she be entitled to and education? You can even argue that subsidized healthcare supports the childs most basic constitutional right more than subsidized education does. His right to life..............