wtf is wrong with so many Muslims?!

[van-man]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

Yes, but it's also a great support of "Religion is the Opiate of the masses". You choose to believe something, however imporbable, simply because it makes you feel good.

I've never been one to lend much consideration to any emotive trains of thought; however, if an alternatitive choice to nilism or Friedrich Nietzsche's master morality is believing something that makes you a better - kinder person, but in the end is proven false, then I say to hell with reality. I do not consider my beliefs to be false, and any gaps in my theory are attributable to my lack of knowledge and not the theory itself. But! If I must live in a world full of idiots who are seeking some messiah of some sort, I'd rather it be Jesus than Oprah.... Sadly, as you've argued, sometimes the outcomes of beliefs that are harmless prima facia can be tragically and preversely altered by the person holding those beliefs. And, great pain and suffering can result.


Ultimately however, what ever studies we embark on in life will be permanently limited to a sample group of one. So, we will never be able to decide what is best for someone else. All we can do is share what we've learned and why we believe it, like we're doing here, and let others decide for themselves.

[Grizzly]

Originally Posted by van-man

Ultimately however, what ever studies we embark on in life will be permanently limited to a sample group of one. So, we will never be able to decide what is best for someone else. All we can do is share what we've learned and why we believe it, like we're doing here, and let others decide for themselves.

Damn, you're a terrible fucking philosopher! Who thinks their beliefs are limited only to themselves? I hold mine because they are correct for everyone. Trust me, I'm never wrong, therefore, y'all just do as I say and you'll have a perfect life.

Besides, Ayn Rand has already unarguably demonstrated what is correct and what isn't.

[Grizzly]

Originally Posted by dennis

Grizz ..your not going to lighten up on me are you big guy?I know you are a highly educated man..I can tell this from all your post's.......I will stick to my guns on my beliefs no matter what the world throws at me.The Bible has been translated many times over but it never loses it's original meaning..never.The King james version say's the same thing as the original scribes wrote thousands of years ago..just like the NIV version says the same thing as king james etc...When the dead sea scrolls were uncovered they said the same thing our modern bible says now......The bible is a constant.. it will always be around..it was written by 40 authors over a 1500 year period on 3 different continants..it does not contradict itself anywhere..history has never proven it wrong.I am not sure what to say about your mormon comments..I am not sure what they believe..??Hey grizz..honestly..who do you think created everything you see?

But that "message" is the same in all religions. So why choose that one and not another?

Oh, and you bet your ass the Bible has been proven factually incorrect. That whole thing about the world being created 10,000 years ago is only scientifically proven to be 399,999,990,000 years too little. That's a pretty big mistake for an omnipotent being. He must have had a lot to deal with that day and just made a typo.

Your first problem is the assumption of "creation". I don't believe anything/anyone created it all. While I can't, YET, account for the existence of matter, science has pretty much explained the rest.

As a reasonable man, I absolutely can not abide by a belief in something which is the abnegation of reason. Reason and religion are mutually exclusive, yet reason is the primary means by which man is able to live, so I reject the one which makes life impossible to live.

[van-man]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

Damn, you're a terrible fucking philosopher! Who thinks their beliefs are limited only to themselves? I hold mine because they are correct for everyone. Trust me, I'm never wrong, therefore, y'all just do as I say and you'll have a perfect life.

Yes, but a terrible philosopher makes a great Christian! You know what I'm talking about... Its just like Ralph Emerson said, we are all offered a choice between truth and repose. You and I both chose truth and so we can never rest so long as people refuse to think about their decisions fully. But deep down we both wish we could have been happy with repose. That is why we love the simple pursuits so much. Whether it be racing a motorcycle, lifting weights, or punching people in the head; the philosophy of these pursuits are simple and allow us the repreive we so desperately need from such a taxing life.
I envy the mentally handicap. Sometimes I think nothing would make me happier than to be perfectly content to finger paint and listen to the same backstreet boys cassette over and over again....

Originally Posted by Grizzly

Besides, Ayn Rand has already unarguably demonstrated what is correct and what isn't.

A friend of mine has her appearance on the Phil Donahue show on VHS. It is soooo funny to watch how livid the audience becomes at some of the claims she makes! O man that is some good stuff!

[van-man]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

Your first problem is the assumption of "creation". I don't believe anything/anyone created it all. While I can't, YET, account for the existence of matter, science has pretty much explained the rest.

Rationally though, I find it difficult to purport any claim that mandates order springs from chaos.
to subscibe to such a belief would irreprarably compromise the definitions of order and chaos to such a point that they would become essentially meaningless.
There can never be order in chaos.
There can never be chaos in order.
Their very nature is mutually exclusive.

Originally Posted by Grizzly

As a reasonable man, I absolutely can not abide by a belief in something which is the abnegation of reason.

I agree. and I think this is support for my above rejection of the evolutionists account of beginnings.

Reason and religion are mutually exclusive, yet reason is the primary means by which man is able to live, so I reject the one which makes life impossible to live.

Martin Luther totally agrees with you about the mutual exclusivity, but he went the other direction with his view of reason... either way you go you run the risk of dogmatism.
I also think majority of Islam follows this premise. But again... dogma.

[Grizzly]

Which explains why Lutherans are all fucked up. To deny reason as the only method by which man can continue his existence is......stupid. Best word I could think of.

[van-man]

hahaha! I hate it when that happens!

[Desibaba]

You know what really makes a person want to believe the idea of religion.Its our mortality.Noone wants to accept that oneday we will die and there wont be ANYTHING at all after that.Im sure if im 80 yrs old and lying in my deathbed its much nicer to think that im going to heaven instead of something else.Which is also the reason youll see many people go through a midlife change when they have a heart attack or something along those lines.In the past they didnt give a shit and now all they talk about is how jesus is coming back or mohammad is taking them to heaven.Yeah i guess jesus and mohammad are on the way back right now,they are just taking some time off and relaxing at a strip club

[jasthace]

[quote=Grizzly While I can't, YET, account for the existence of matter,[/QUOTE]

I account for it with the simple rule that everything has an opposite,so for there to be nothing there must be something, therefore there is everything.

"God"the creator or life as I call it is much bigger then any religion we consciously have,but it has a connection to everyone and living thing,to which that living thing has powers it can draw on if it consciously believes in the life force and power of "God" inside of it.

I like to believe that if it took me a near eternity to be here with the formation of matter, that when I die,given that you have no concept of time when dead, then it will feel like an instant before I am back again,even though it has taken a near eternity again.{and that is a worst case scenario}
It has been showen in studies that most people follow the religion that they are born into{as a community},so this shows that people dont really question enough and or are to scared to go against the word of God that they have been told.........

It has also been noted on ocassions that when people face death even if they follow no religion,they will pray to "god"

I think if a person prays to "god" too much,then the power will not be effective because you are being a right nag and pain in the ass over nothing,but if you use it where totaly necessary it may have some effect if you get lucky, perhaps

And another thing I dont go for this,one big bang theory.Why is it that in the middle of every gallaxy there is a black hole,suggesting that each gallaxy expodes and contracts in its own cycle of life,and dont tell me they were all stuck to gether once,because it goes on for ever as sure as you are reading this, and you can't stick for every together into one

[Grizzly]

Is that sort of like, "If God created everything, then who created God?" I suppose it's the same presumption in either case. Something just was.

[dennis]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

But that "message" is the same in all religions. So why choose that one and not another?

Oh, and you bet your ass the Bible has been proven factually incorrect. That whole thing about the world being created 10,000 years ago is only scientifically proven to be 399,999,990,000 years too little. That's a pretty big mistake for an omnipotent being. He must have had a lot to deal with that day and just made a typo.

Your first problem is the assumption of "creation". I don't believe anything/anyone created it all. While I can't, YET, account for the existence of matter, science has pretty much explained the rest.

As a reasonable man, I absolutely can not abide by a belief in something which is the abnegation of reason. Reason and religion are mutually exclusive, yet reason is the primary means by which man is able to live, so I reject the one which makes life impossible to live.

Grizz..I have studied the king james and the niv for 1/2 my life...where do you see anywhere in those books that the world was created 10,000 years ago..maybe I am missing something here...go back and read the first few chapters of genesis.....

[Grizzly]

I'm not making this up. Creationist claim the earth is less than 10,000 years old. I can't state chapter, line and verse, but it's in there. I believe, actually, that it's gleaned from extrapolating data, rather than just blatantly stated.

[jasthace]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

Is that sort of like, "If God created everything, then who created God?" I suppose it's the same presumption in either case. Something just was.

Call me a pain in the ass,but I look at it like this.

What about ,"Nothing just was",
for there to be nothing there must be something.

I get the feeling religious people over estimate their importance in the big picture.
And desperately cling to a religion to full this need for security and self importance.
They sould really admitt that they are a tiny product of a never ending cycle of the exploding and contracting gallaxys {which represents the never ending cycle of life and death}
When a baby is in the womb,it takes time to be built and be created,as life produces the cells and formation of itself slowly.
That is what happens with the universe and life.
Or did a creator just put it together over a period of seven days and there you go, adam and eve.Be good or I wont look after you any more.
Did this creator do that to the dinosaurs too.there you are, now don't eat meat.

Maybe life is its own god and creator,in every form and shape.
And all you should really do is respect it and other forms of it........ even if they dont believe the same crazy ideas{like mine .

[van-man]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

I'm not making this up. Creationist claim the earth is less than 10,000 years old. I can't state chapter, line and verse, but it's in there. I believe, actually, that it's gleaned from extrapolating data, rather than just blatantly stated.

Come on Grizz... don't use conjecture and and assumptions to make a strawman. Christian does not equal Creationist. That is an equivocation error plain and simple. Sure, you could draw some kind of venn diagram demonstrating that there is serious overlap, but real christians would never be so bold as to say that they had an exact figure from what the book of Genesis says. Hell, if we could do that, I'd start with Revelations!

I only say this because I know you would jump on my ass if I did it

[dennis]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

I'm not making this up. Creationist claim the earth is less than 10,000 years old. I can't state chapter, line and verse, but it's in there. I believe, actually, that it's gleaned from extrapolating data, rather than just blatantly stated.

Grizz.. your facts on almost everything I have ever read written from you are usually right on the mark..but..you could not be more wrong than you are now about this 10,000 year # you have pulled out of your hat.Christians do not believe and the bible certainly does not state the earth was created 10,000 years ago ..that's crazy...We all know roughly (christians and non christains) when the earth was created..it all coincides with science...you never have answered my question Grizz....Do you know how you got here ? Do you know where you will be headed when you die ?