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MESO-Rx Bodybuilding Powerlifting and Strongman Forum |  | | | Powerlifting and Strongman Forum: This is a discussion on TRT for competitive powerlifters? within the Bodybuilding forums, part of the extensive steroid information at MESO-Rx; I have a couple of senior level world class powerlifters who are now patients. Both have been shown to suffer ... |
09-28-2005, 06:26 PM
| | Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine | | Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Lansing, MI
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| |  TRT for competitive powerlifters?
I have a couple of senior level world class powerlifters who are now patients. Both have been shown to suffer hypogonadism. I need to know if supplementing legit TRT will cause them to test positive for steroids at PL events. |
09-30-2005, 09:16 AM
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As long as there testosterone is within physiological
ranges, there should be no problem. I competed in a few MuscleMania (drug tested) competitions, many of those guys use low doses of test to beat the drug test.
What type of testing protocal is going to be used?
Also, I have heard that many sports are now looking for HCG in the urine, just to be safe I would have them discontinue hcg 3 weeks before the competition ( I THINK 3 weeks is the detection time).
Hope this helps, I will try to dig up some more detailed info for you. |
09-30-2005, 11:49 AM
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What about the test/epitest ratio? Is that not tested for in powerlifting? |
09-30-2005, 03:01 PM
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It can be tested, but this is where my knowlege STOPS! Would supplementing physiological doses of TRT "throw off" the eptitest/testosterone ratio?? If not, then they are good to go. Typically, when a sporting event tests for AAS, they do so with a urinalysis, any other means would be too expesive. It is my belief that testosterone does not show up in urine because it is bioidentical, but the metabolites of AAS show up. So as long as these guys are not using anything but TRT, they should be fine. |
09-30-2005, 06:47 PM
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Quote: |
Originally Posted by SWALE I have a couple of senior level world class powerlifters who are now patients. Both have been shown to suffer hypogonadism. I need to know if supplementing legit TRT will cause them to test positive for steroids at PL events. | Anabolic-androgneic steroids, including testosterone, are banned, period.
Unless, they obtain a medical exemption from the sports body that sanctions the event.
At any rate, it they want to abide by the banned substance list, then they need to reveal their exogenous testosterone use.
Otherwise, they are no better or worse than anyone else who tries to beat the test. |
10-02-2005, 11:50 PM
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It is highly unlikely they will get a medical exemption, so unless their T levels were very carefully monitored to be within normal ranges then they could easily test positive.
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10-03-2005, 02:05 AM
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Quote: |
Originally Posted by J DUB It is highly unlikely they will get a medical exemption, so unless their T levels were very carefully monitored to be within normal ranges then they could easily test positive. | T levels are irrelevant. What matters is whether the drug-tested athlete is taking exogenous AAS, not what their T levels are.
T levels vary among individuals. The use of exogenous T to establish a certain range of variability is explicitly forbidden by all drug testing bodies that I know of...
The typical argument used by those in favor of drug-testing is that this is cheating. This is unfair.
But the argument that "levelling" the T levels of participants creates a more "level playing field" seems plausible, eh? |
10-03-2005, 04:22 AM
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I shouldn't think test/epitest ratio would be thrown off as long as androgen levels remain within normal range. |
10-03-2005, 09:54 AM
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Quote: |
Originally Posted by SWALE I shouldn't think test/epitest ratio would be thrown off as long as androgen levels remain within normal range. | Androgen levels don't even have to be in the normal range.
To answer your original question, they can take 200-300mg per week of testosterone ester and still pass the test/epi test (and this is commonly done). But you might not want to tell them that!
The reason that this is possible is because of the lax standard for a positive doping result i.e. the test/epi ration has to exceed 12:1 to register a positive. In non-doped subjects, the ratio is typically 1:1 |
10-03-2005, 06:00 PM
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Swale,
As an elite level powerlifter myself I have pretty strong feelings on this issue. I don't want to sound "preachy" here, but the fact is that powerlifting has plenty of non-tested feds (which is where I lift). To lift in the tested feds against other competitors who believe that their competition is "natural" is cheating in my opinion.
Now I understand that at the World Class level, that most guys are on regardless of the federation, but it still doesn't make it right when there are options for powerlifters who use.
Just something to think about.
Matt
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10-04-2005, 12:09 AM
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Thanks for your comments, all.
Animal--My concern for one of them is that he has already been successfully treated for a very bad form of cancer. This disease is what left him in a hypogonadal state. Allowing him to remain there raises the risks it will return.
What are the "options" you speak of? Do any of them elevate testosteorne levels?
Since we are on the topic of ethics, I do not think re-establishing just normal range is cheating. NOT doing so is quite unhealthy. And doing so would be 100mg per week or less.
I sought the advice of the physician medical advisor for their particular powerlifting group, and identified myself as a colleague, but he did not reply. |
10-04-2005, 09:57 AM
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Quote: |
Originally Posted by SWALE Since we are on the topic of ethics, I do not think re-establishing just normal range is cheating. NOT doing so is quite unhealthy. And doing so would be 100mg per week or less. | As you aptly point out, what constitutes "cheating" is arbitrary. WADA and most anti-doping flat out disagree with "your" definition of cheating.
According to them, "cheating" is the use of exogenous anabolic steroids, including testosterone. Bumping an athletes' T levels to the upper quartile for whatever reason, health reasons included, would by definition, most likely be cheating. |
10-04-2005, 10:06 AM
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After further discussion, both have decided to end their powerlifting careers rather than maintain the risks of hypogonadism.
Every organization has the right to write their own rules. Therefore violation of same does indeed constitute "cheating".
It is a tough situation, indeed.
Thank you for your input, gents. |
10-04-2005, 10:07 AM
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Quote: |
Originally Posted by SWALE Since we are on the topic of ethics, I do not think re-establishing just normal range is cheating. NOT doing so is quite unhealthy. And doing so would be 100mg per week or less. | Regarding ethics, while it may be completely ethical to optimize an individual's health. The same ethical act may be determined as unethical in another context.
So, you can choose to take care of a patient's health or you can help a steroid-using athlete pass a doping protocol. But the latter can get you in trouble. |
10-04-2005, 10:16 AM
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Quote: |
Originally Posted by SWALE After further discussion, both have decided to end their powerlifting careers rather than maintain the risks of hypogonadism.
Every organization has the right to write their own rules. Therefore violation of same does indeed constitute "cheating".
It is a tough situation, indeed.
Thank you for your input, gents. | There are untested organizations, as AM mentioned, where androgen use is tolerated. Just so they know that it's not an either/or situation... |
10-04-2005, 11:46 AM
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"or you can help a steroid-using athlete pass a doping protocol."
This situation in no way, shape or form, is analogous to the above, of course. |
10-04-2005, 01:53 PM
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Quote: |
Originally Posted by SWALE "or you can help a steroid-using athlete pass a doping protocol."
This situation in no way, shape or form, is analogous to the above, of course. | It is much closer than you realize... Questions about artificially manipulating hormone levels and still passing the doping protocols such as the T:E ratio test are clearly consistent with the above.
In an atmosphere of steroid witchhunts and the corresponding hysteria, you can never be too careful. |
10-04-2005, 03:48 PM
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Negative. It's world's away. What I refer to is treating a legitimate deficiency which is making the athlete sick, and returning him to a healthy state.
But alas, the distinction is moot. Even making a sick man healthy again is cheating by their rules. |
10-04-2005, 07:36 PM
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Quote: |
Originally Posted by SWALE Negative. It's world's away. What I refer to is treating a legitimate deficiency which is making the athlete sick, and returning him to a healthy state.
But alas, the distinction is moot. Even making a sick man healthy again is cheating by their rules. | I'm referring to the exact same thing - giving exogenous testosterone to an athlete to improve performance.
This is what you are doing even though your intentions are to "treat a legitimate deficiency" and restore the athlete to "a healthy state".
No difference in the end result. | | | |
