1st Cycle- Need Suggestions

[timetolift]

Been floating around for a while getting my AAS knowledge up to par. As stated this will be my first cycle and I'm looking for dryer muscle gains. I dont mind some water, just not looking for the bloating. My hairline is receeding somewhat, I'm 21 years old(6'1"@210lbs hanging around 12%BF), would like to keep it for a while. So far I'm probably going to use deca for my base, so the question is what else......

test- doesnt help the hair but good for sex drive water retention
tren- too suppressive,
winstrol- should be solid strength gains, hair though
anavar- heard mixed thoughts but sounds good

Might say forget hair and run deca and winstrol, gains should be great lean muscle, water shouldnt be to excessive. The newly gained muscle should hopefully be quite retainable with my diet in check. Whats a good cycle duration and pct protocal for both? Something of this nature

8 week cycle
deca @ 400mg weekly 1-8
winstrol @ 100mg EOD 3-8
HCG- not sure how much and when ?

Any insightor recommendations would be helpful

[Joe Chop]

Test should ALWAYS be the base of any cycle. Start with test and stack what you feel is necessary. I'm no pro but I think I have done my homework. Anybody please correct me if I'm wrong.

[novicebb]

Here is a cycle suggestion. I tried this not long ago and it did pretty well for me. Pretty uncommon but it will work and will be good for a beginner.

Take 50mg taken in divided dosage every 12 hours for the first 5 days then up to 100mg for the next 5 days.

Week 1-2: 100mg Testosterone Propionate taken every 2-3 days to jumpstart possible gains also Anavar at just 20mg daily if you can get it at and affordable price

Week 3-10 : Rid 100mg of Testosterone Propionate and Anavar and add 500mg of Testosterone Enanthate weekly taken every 3 days and 400mg Deca weekly taken every 3 days (not on the same day as Test injection.)

Week 4 through remaining cycle add 20-40mg of Tamoxifen if you can afford 2.5mg of Letrozole taken daily or 1mg of Anastrozole taken eod.

Take proper PCT afterwards and you will make great gains with good workout schedule and damn good diet plan. Maybe 15lbs of excess water retention if diet is strictly clean and low in refined carbs.

You can also add Caffeine/Clen/Synephrine stack for about 4 weeks towards the last 4 weeks as well or even during PCT cycle.

[timetolift]

Hmm... I had the feeling that most are going to recommend test as a base, but how necessary is this? If I ran the winny and deca with aromasin on cycle test should be up and water retention low? I could also throw in selegiline for prolactin issues that may arise from deca, or take it anyways for better well-being. 15lbs of water is not going to cut it. Keep the recommendations coming. I'm not going to like sticking myself EOD for the winny, oh well.

[roadkill]

Deca will definately bloat you. It will also kill your sex drive and make it difficult to get an erection. Yes test is the way to go. If you want dry lean gains try test enanthate at 500 mgs per week for 12 weeks with arimidex at .5 mg eod throughout the cycle. For added hardness and strength you can throw anavar in for the last 6-8 weeks at 40mgs per day. Make sure you have pct ready so you can maintain most of your gains. 4 weeks of nolva should be good for pct.

[Beefy]

You won't regret test alone for the first cycle. It is the only steroid that your body can make naturally, and in my opinion it is not as evil as you may think. Go with what roadkill said. I wouldn't even use the anavar, though. You will cut or bulk based on your training and diet. You will recover easily with that cycle. Use nizoral shampoo to protect hairloss. It stops DHT (which is the cause of hairloss) at the scalp. Very good product available over the counter.

[timetolift]

I actually just order some Nizoral shampoo(2% concentration) and am also take saw palmetto. Hopefully this combination will work fine for me, my hair is receeding at a slow constant pace. The whole look into your mothers fathers side for hairloss must be a crock. My mothers father and uncle both had a head full of hair, my father and his brother exhibit MPB though. Oh well. I suppose test only would be a good start- cheap and effective. What are the typical gains that can be seen off test enanthate? Probably run 10-12 weeks test-e @ 500mg week with arimidex .25-.5mg on cycle. Then for pct switch to nolva 40/40/20/20 and aromasin10-20mg tapered. Still interested in more options,

Can anyone else account for nizoral's effectiveness on slowing hairloss?

[TheBeat]

Here's my take on it. Test should be your base and add Deca if you want. USE IT! if hairloss is a concern use Finasteride. Your body runs on test now, deca will wipe it out completely at just 100mg/week, at least use enough to replace your test to the high end - 200mg/week. I do not understand everyone's fear of Test? Do you have alot of water retention now? After your cycle and PCT is over your Test will raise again, probably someone in a comparasive range of 100mg - 200mg of exogenus test, SO WHY NOT AT LEAST KEEP IT THAT WAY DURING YOUR CYCLE? The crazy water retention you have heard about or seen is with high amounts of long-estered test like 1000mg/week. I use between 200-400 every week and have no noticable water retention. I honestly believe and have no agenda in telling you that your first (and every) Cycle should have 350-500mg/week of test and MAYBE add something else to it. Enough about the test though, here are my other thoughts.

TREN - Don't combine Tren with Deca too Progestinic, plus Tren is pretty harsh for a first cycle (although I was going to for my first) and either one, but especially both will make for a long/or hard recovery.

WINSTROL - Winstrol is hard on hair, cholesterol and joints. But is a good mix with Deca if you can handle the daily injects (If your going to do it do it right and keep your levels rather stable and high) Winstrol has been shown to be anti-Progestinic and a good compliment to Deca.

ANAVAR - Pricy, but if affordable I'd use it as well. No real synergy at all with deca, but a good addition to anything (from what I hear though, I personnaly have never tried)

Now everyone I know personnally that uses Deca gets alot of water retention, on a mg to mg basis they get more water with deca than with test.


My Cycle recommendations for Deca and using Test Cypionate at 200mg a week are:

200mg-500mg Cypionate for 12-16 weeks (or at least 2 weeks longer than the deca)
400mg Deca for 10 weeks (2 bottles, or how ever many weeks to use it up and run the test for 4 more)
maybe add 25mg Dianabol for 3-6 weeks

Personnally being a pincushion I would use short acting esters, water is not much of a problem at all with them, plus you mention an 8-week cycle which just isn't worth your time with Deca. SO my other suggestions are:

ALL with 50+ mg EOD of any Test - Prop,Cypi,Enan,Sust

100mg EOD Nandrolone Phenylpropionate (Deca's short acting brother)

or my personnal opinion of your best bet if you want to stack and not just use Test is:

100mg EOD Test Prop
100mg EOD Nandrolone P-Prop
100mg EOD Masteron

Regarding the HCG use, I'd use 500mg on the weekends or even bettter would be 250mg EOD

[timetolift]

I talked to some people and they tell me that on test enanthate only the chances of retaining gains are slim. How about running test-e with equipoise, EQ should help solidfy gains, correct?

[terrorizer2]

Originally Posted by timetolift

I talked to some people and they tell me that on test enanthate only the chances of retaining gains are slim. How about running test-e with equipoise, EQ should help solidfy gains, correct?

Not flaming you mate but there is no such thing as solidifying gains.The key to retaining gains is your diet and PCT not the type of steroid you use.How can one drug give 'better quality' muscle than another.It is an illusion.

.People think that the scales give a true picture of their gains when they don't.Water retention is NOT gains and test e gives alot of that.Then when they lose 10lbs of water they think they have lost their gains.If you retain 7 to 10lbs of genuine muscle off a cycle you are doing very well inded.


www.muscletalk.co.uk

[ForemanRules]

Originally Posted by timetolift

I talked to some people and they tell me that on test enanthate only the chances of retaining gains are slim. How about running test-e with equipoise, EQ should help solidfy gains, correct?

Originally Posted by novicebb

Here is a cycle suggestion. I tried this not long ago and it did pretty well for me. Pretty uncommon but it will work and will be good for a beginner.

Take 50mg taken in divided dosage every 12 hours for the first 5 days then up to 100mg for the next 5 days.

Week 1-2: 100mg Testosterone Propionate taken every 2-3 days to jumpstart possible gains also Anavar at just 20mg daily if you can get it at and affordable price

Week 3-10 : Rid 100mg of Testosterone Propionate and Anavar and add 500mg of Testosterone Enanthate weekly taken every 3 days and 400mg Deca weekly taken every 3 days (not on the same day as Test injection.)

Week 4 through remaining cycle add 20-40mg of Tamoxifen if you can afford 2.5mg of Letrozole taken daily or 1mg of Anastrozole taken eod.

Take proper PCT afterwards and you will make great gains with good workout schedule and damn good diet plan. Maybe 15lbs of excess water retention if diet is strictly clean and low in refined carbs.

You can also add Caffeine/Clen/Synephrine stack for about 4 weeks towards the last 4 weeks as well or even during PCT cycle.

Horrible advice !!!!


First cycle???
Simple do a test only cycle, 10 weeks of a long ester test, 200 or 250mg 2x a week. PCT starts about 12 days after the last shot. For PCT I just do Nolva at 40/40/40/20, some add clomid to their PCT

[timetolift]

terrorizer2, I totally agree with you, I just dont want to put on 15lbs of water, I'd rather gain solid 5lbs of muscle less water. If I go test only and throw in some proviron that should help with water and estrogen correct?

[terrorizer2]

Originally Posted by timetolift

terrorizer2, I totally agree with you, I just dont want to put on 15lbs of water, I'd rather gain solid 5lbs of muscle less water. If I go test only and throw in some proviron that should help with water and estrogen correct?

It will help with water retention but an AI like Adex is better.If you cannot afford it then don't worry.If you get gyno symptoms then you must take nolvadex.


www.muscletalk.co.uk

[timetolift]

I was planning on running arimidex on cycle but isnt there a problem if nolva is combined, issues with plamsa levels?

[redbirds]

I love Sustanon. A lot of people say they dont like it but I LOVE it. I am on a cycle now and I have gained 12 pounds in 41/2 weeks. This shit is the shit. Very little side effects also. Run 500mg a week for 10-12 weeks and I bet you will like it.