1st Cycle Too Mild?

[JohnTree]

Urgent advice needed to tweak cycle just started! Sorry I’m not more prepared as I wasn’t planning to start for another 1-2 weeks but I got caught up in coaches enthusiasm and extreme confidence in his plan.

Goals: Regain 10lbs upper body only (legs grow fast no injuries) and to promote healing from injuries in an auto accident 8 months ago as well as chronic training injuries from 28 years lifting and athletics. Want permanent gains that I can maintain with regular workouts and don’t want to gain a lot of fat in the process. Minimizing side effects (no gyno) as is important as sexual function. Premium stuff is more important than budget.

Age: 46, 6’5” 210lbs 12.5% body fat.

Coaches Plan for me:
Weeks 1-2 Deca 200 mg 1 x per week
Weeks 3-10 Deca 400 1 x mg per week
Weeks 1-10 Anavar 30mg per day
Weeks 1-10 HGH 2 I.U. ED Will likely continue year round.

-PCT: Nolvadex, Clomid, HCG (will use Nolvadex if itchy nips, but otherwise wait until end for Nol, Clo and HCG)

-May order Liquid Femara or Arimidex from AG-Guys to take low dose preventative during? What do you think?

-Propecia 1 mg a day for hair. Been using for 5 years already
.
-Current supplements: glutamine, whey protein, casein protein, msm, glucosimin/choidritan, liver tablets, creatine. Diet is super clean and high in protein and vegetables.

My concerns:

1) No Test Eth/Cyp. in the cycle. (Coach says this is great mild cycle and lets wait 2-3 weeks to see if needed because he’s confident I won’t need it) I want to add but coach is fighting me. I can also bump up the anavar and deca.

2) The first 2 weeks is only 200 mg Deca rather than 400mg. (Seems I should start out with 400mg, although I’m wondering if the 200 mg first 2 weeks is a strategy for smoother increase in hormones. Coach doesn’t know why he does it this way but has done it this ways for years)

3) Shouldn’t Deca stop 2 weeks before end of cycle of the Anavar (or Test if added)

I’m considering upping my deca to finish it in 8 weeks of the 10 week cycle.

4) Is the benefit/ risk ratio favorable of adding Nolvadex, Femara or Arimidex from the beginning as a gyno preventative rather than waiting for itchy nips? What about HCG during? I’m not getting much Anavar/Deca in this mild cycle so coach says unnecessary. But I may add T based on responses here.

Anything else I shuld add to optimize? Proviron etc.

Thank you.

[jsupstarz]

I really don't like that cycle. But everyone's different. Oh well. Who thought that cycle up???? Let us know how it goes
10 weeks of VAR? I don't think ya got the greatest coach. Your concerns are more on line than he is?? I would run test EN DEca, 500mg and 400mg 10-12 weeks maybe with var at the beggining 4-6wk Not 10. And your doing all That shit like HGH ETC> are you even experienced. It really doesn't sound like it. Some one is setting you up for failure. Well Im sure these guys on here will give you some good advice on this. GOOD LUCK OH and who's coaching you @ 50yearsold?? what sport?

[dennis]

your going to need test.also with all your injuries you better not go too heavy with your new found strength increase ! There was a guy on here a few weeks back on deca only and his pecker had all but stopped working..after he added test he was fine.

[JohnTree]

Ok, I spoke to my trainer and I'm going to add 500mg week Test Cyp., and it turns out that the Anavar supply is actually consisting 7 weeks worth. So, I'm going to decrease the time on Deca to 8 weeks and Anavar to 7. How does that sound?

Weeks 1-10 Test Cyp 250mg 2 x week = 500mg week
Weeks 1-8 Deca 400 1 x mg per week
Weeks 1-7 Anavar 30mg per day
Weeks 1-10 HGH 2 I.U. ED Will likely continue year round.

PCT as posted above.

[JohnTree]

Originally Posted by JohnTree

Ok, I spoke to my trainer and I'm going to add 500mg week Test Cyp., and it turns out that the Anavar supply is actually consisting 7 weeks worth. So, I'm going to decrease the time on Deca to 8 weeks and Anavar to 7. How does that sound?

Weeks 1-10 Test Cyp 250mg 2 x week = 500mg week
Weeks 1-8 Deca 400 1 x mg per week
Weeks 1-7 Anavar 30mg per day
Weeks 1-10 HGH 2 I.U. ED Will likely continue year round.

PCT as posted above.

A shorter 8 week cycle would be:
Weeks 1-8 Test Cyp 250mg 2 x week = 500mg week
Weeks 1-6 Deca 400 1 x mg per week
Weeks 1-7 Anavar 30mg per day
Weeks 1-10 HGH 2 I.U. ED Will likely continue year round.

[Mr. Shoulders]

I would go 10 weeks with this one and run the deca the whole time

Weeks 1-10Test Cyp 250mg 2 x week = 500mg week
Weeks 1-10 Deca 400 1 x mg per week
Weeks 1-7 Anavar 30mg per day
Weeks 1-10 HGH 2 I.U. ED

[HDH]

Originally Posted by JohnTree

First off let me welcome you to MESO. I'm going to try to help answer you questions like this because of the length of the post.

Urgent advice needed to tweak cycle just started! Sorry I’m not more prepared as I wasn’t planning to start for another 1-2 weeks but I got caught up in coaches enthusiasm and extreme confidence in his plan. Don't let anyone push you into doing anything your not comfortable with. It is your body and you should take as much time as necessary to get yourself prepared.
Goals: Regain 10lbs upper body only (legs grow fast no injuries) and to promote healing from injuries in an auto accident 8 months ago as well as chronic training injuries from 28 years lifting and athletics. Want permanent gains that I can maintain with regular workouts and don’t want to gain a lot of fat in the process. Minimizing side effects (no gyno) as is important as sexual function. Premium stuff is more important than budget. Very reachable goals. With proper diet and training, expect more.

Age: 46, 6’5” 210lbs 12.5% body fat.

Coaches Plan for me: Your coach could use a little time on this forum if he is going to be giving this kind of advice to people that trust him to make the correct decisions that effect their health /goals. Not saying that this cycle won't give gains but there are better choices. In this cycle your natural test production will stop and you goal of "sexual function" could very well not be obtained. That is why test is highly suggested.
Weeks 1-2 Deca 200 mg 1 x per week
Weeks 3-10 Deca 400 1 x mg per week
Weeks 1-10 Anavar 30mg per day
Weeks 1-10 HGH 2 I.U. ED Will likely continue year round.

-PCT: Nolvadex, Clomid, HCG (will use Nolvadex if itchy nips, but otherwise wait until end for Nol, Clo and HCG) I prefer the Nolva over the Clomid but you will find what works best for you.

-May order Liquid Femara or Arimidex from AG-Guys to take low dose preventative during? What do you think? I keep Femara on hand and that will kill gyno faster. If you use it during cycle for prevention, a very low dose works well. 1.25mg E3d or .62 EOD.

-Propecia 1 mg a day for hair. Been using for 5 years already
.
-Current supplements: glutamine, whey protein, casein protein, msm, glucosimin/choidritan, liver tablets, creatine. Diet is super clean and high in protein and vegetables.

My concerns:

1) No Test Eth/Cyp. in the cycle. (Coach says this is great mild cycle and lets wait 2-3 weeks to see if needed because he’s confident I won’t need it) It will take 4 weeks to see what the Deca will do. I want to add but coach is fighting me. I can also bump up the anavar and deca. Add the test. As I explained earlier your natural test will stop producing. Run the test higher than the Deca.
2) The first 2 weeks is only 200 mg Deca rather than 400mg. (Seems I should start out with 400mg, although I’m wondering if the 200 mg first 2 weeks is a strategy for smoother increase in hormones. Coach doesn’t know why he does it this way but has done it this ways for years) He can't give you an explanation because it is not true. If anything I do the opposite. It is called frontloading. For the first 2 weeks I double the dose so my bloodlevels get where they need to be faster and stay the same thru out the cycle. Deca has a very slow releasing ester and it will take a month to see gains. If you start at 200mg for the first 2 weeks it will take longer to see any of the gains.
3) Shouldn’t Deca stop 2 weeks before end of cycle of the Anavar (or Test if added) 2 to 3 weeks.

I’m considering upping my deca to finish it in 8 weeks of the 10 week cycle. Deca is a slow builder. IMO, 8 weeks is too short to run the Deca.

4) Is the benefit/ risk ratio favorable of adding Nolvadex, Femara or Arimidex from the beginning as a gyno preventative rather than waiting for itchy nips? What about HCG during? I’m not getting much Anavar/Deca in this mild cycle so coach says unnecessary. But I may add T based on responses here. You never know what is necessary until you start cycling. I always keep Nolva (serm) and Femara (ai) on the shelf. Do not go into this unprepared.
Anything else I should add to optimize? Proviron etc. I wouldn't add too many drugs to your first cycle.

Thank you.

Stick around and before you know it, you will be telling your coach how to run cycles. I also run the Deca for joint problems. It works wonders. It would be in your best interest to run the test with this cycle. You can make gains without it but you might need to order Cialis or Viagra to keep the wife /girlfriend happy. I would go with a 10 to 12 week cycle.

HDH

[bigcountry76]

OUTSTANDING POST. I am no expert in the field but from one new person to another new person to the field of AAS. I would take it easy for my first cycle. Like HDH said " it is your body". and this brings up one good reason you are going to introduce drugs to your body that has never been in your body before. So you don't know what effects it will have on your body.

I have experience alot of things in my life and most of the time people who can't give you a reason why something is because they really don't know what they are talking about. that could be anything not just with AAS.

I am not sure of your goals, but if you keep it simple. you should achieve good gains.
Such as myself 4 weeks into a cycle of test e and dbol and i have gained 15 pounds and my work out bench press went up 70 pounds be sure to do plenty of research before you start. then you will have less problems later in cycle or if problem was to arise then you would what to do when it happens. good luck.

[HARDNOX]

Looks a lot better with the added test bro.Good luck.

[Selene]

I agree with others, it is not a well thought out cycle, you need to have test in cycle if you plan on doing deca, for first cycle you should perhaps use the hgh and test. keeping it simple

good luck to you

[dennis]

HDH..good reply bud ! The only thing I see on his new cyclethat i do not agree with is he has planned is var for weeks 1-7.On a 12 week cycle i would run the var 14 weeks.Especially run it the 2 weeks after last shot of test and stop it right before you start pct.

[HDH]

Originally Posted by dennis

HDH..good reply bud ! The only thing I see on his new cyclethat i do not agree with is he has planned is var for weeks 1-7.On a 12 week cycle i would run the var 14 weeks.Especially run it the 2 weeks after last shot of test and stop it right before you start pct.

If it were me, I would just drop the var and save it for another cycle but that is just a personal choice.

HDH

[JohnTree]

Originally Posted by HDH

If it were me, I would just drop the var and save it for another cycle but that is just a personal choice.

HDH

Thank you HDH especially and others for good input and taking the time.

Would optimum use of the Var (7 weeks worth) be to use it for 5 weeks and then run it the 2 weeks after last shot of test and stop it right before start pct. That would leave a gap between week 5 and end of cycle.

Another question: What about upping the dosage the first four weeks (from 30 to 45 Mg day) to boost the effect until the Test and Deca kick in? Isn't the purpose of doing orals such as var to get the benefits going before injectable become effective?

[jsupstarz]

Dennis Loves That Var :-)

[HDH]

Originally Posted by JohnTree

Thank you HDH especially and others for good input and taking the time.

Would optimum use of the Var (7 weeks worth) be to use it for 5 weeks and then run it the 2 weeks after last shot of test and stop it right before start pct. That would leave a gap between week 5 and end of cycle.

Another question: What about upping the dosage the first four weeks (from 30 to 45 Mg day) to boost the effect until the Test and Deca kick in? Isn't the purpose of doing orals such as var to get the benefits going before injectable become effective?

Yes, run it like dennis said. Your cycle will not be over on your last injection. The aas will still be in your system 2 to 3 weeks after the last injection.

Repost your cycle. Not sure which one you are going with.

HDH