2 Weeks Away From First Cycle - Advice Needed

[Riot Act]

Hey, everyone. I have my gear ordered (technically it's already here, but I haven't picked it up yet). I'm doing 8-12 weeks (I'll see how I feel) of Prop and I'm running some Clen with it. Obviously, this is NOT a bulking cycle, just an overall cosmetic cycle.

Since it's not a bulking cycle, I'm fairly certain I'm only going to do the minimum and inject the Prop every 3 days at either 75mg or 100mg (I'm afraid of the mood sides, so I'm hesitant to do 100mg) instead of injecting EOD.

That said, I have some questions before I begin:

1) Should I start the Clen before the Prop or vice-versa or should I start them both at the same time?

2) I could not get any Proviron/Arimidex or HCG. I could only get Nolva. Is this OK and if so, what's th best way to use Nolva with this cycle? I was thinking just running 6 weeks (last 2 weeks of the cycle and then 4 weeks afterwards).

3) With the lack of HCG, I'm worried about my boys and my sex drive. Granted, I'm 21 so hopefully that will help in that area, but is there anything I can do as a precaution? Tribulus, maybe?

4) This cycle is based around the goal of major fat loss and bloat is a concern. Similar to the HCG question above, is there anything I can do to compensate for lack of Proviron?

5) Im concerned about hair loss. Again, I'm 21 and I come from a family without any baldness, so that may work in my favor. However, I'm still a bit concerned. Anything I can do?

6) Anything else you guys want to suggest?


I think that's all the questions for now. We'll see where the discussion goes from here.


Thanks again for all your help thus far.

[jasthace]

[quote=Riot Act;586905]

I'm doing 8-12 weeks (I'll see how I feel) of Prop and I'm running some Clen with it.

That'll be 8 weeks with just nolva for pct.
How many weeks are you planning on running the clen.with down-regulation of beta 2 receptors in mind
Clenbuterol

Prop every 3 days at either 75mg or 100mg (I'm afraid of the mood sides, so I'm hesitant to do 100mg) instead of injecting EOD.

Why do you have anger management issues?

Should I start the Clen before the Prop or vice-versa or should I start them both at the same time?

I cant see why you'd not start them at the same time.
Will you be commencing a new diet or keeping the same?

I could not get any Proviron/Arimidex or HCG. I could only get Nolva. Is this OK and if so, what's th best way to use Nolva with this cycle? I was thinking just running 6 weeks (last 2 weeks of the cycle and then 4 weeks afterwards).

What did you have in mind for the use of he proviron/arimidex?
Proviron's always good to incorporate in a cycle with is great ability to reduce free test. binding to SHBG,so with a low dose cycle like you plan it may have been a useful addition.
As far as the arimidex and nolva are concerned,with such a low dose cycle,I'd be very surprised if you have aromatisation issues,so the arimidex is not necessary IMO.
Nolva PCT only,I can't seE the benefit of using it in the last two weeks of cycle{any one?]

With the lack of HCG, I'm worried about my boys and my sex drive. Granted, I'm 21 so hopefully that will help in that area, but is there anything I can do as a precaution? Tribulus, maybe?

If you dont want to throw any more drugs at it,you should consider some OTC supps in addition.

Phosphatidylserine
Phosphatidylserine Information Phosphatidylserine Powder Medical Research and Cortisol Side Effects Benefit

TONGKAT ALI(EURYCOMA LONGIFOLIA JACK}
TONGKAT ALI (EURYCOMA LONGIFOLIA JACK)/PASAK BUMI on eBay, also Protein Shakes Bodybuilding, Vitamins Supplements, Exercise Fitness, Sporting Goods (end time 13-Jun-08 01:32:15 BST)

This cycle is based around the goal of major fat loss and bloat is a concern. Similar to the HCG question above, is there anything I can do to compensate for lack of Proviron?

T3
Masterone

Im concerned about hair loss. Again, I'm 21 and I come from a family without any baldness, so that may work in my favor. However, I'm still a bit concerned. Anything I can do?

Dont worry
It's not a bald patch,its a solar panel for a sex machine

Anything else you guys want to suggest

http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/stero...-cycle-26.html

[LifeSize]

[quote=jasthace;586918]

Originally Posted by Riot Act

That'll be 8 weeks with just nolva for pct.
How many weeks are you planning on running the clen.with down-regulation of beta 2 receptors in mind
Clenbuterol



Why do you have anger management issues?




I cant see why you'd not start them at the same time.
Will you be commencing a new diet or keeping the same?



What did you have in mind for the use of he proviron/arimidex?
Proviron's always good to incorporate in a cycle with is great ability to reduce free test. binding to SHBG,so with a low dose cycle like you plan it may have been a useful addition.
As far as the arimidex and nolva are concerned,with such a low dose cycle,I'd be very surprised if you have aromatisation issues,so the arimidex is not necessary IMO.
Nolva PCT only,I can't seE the benefit of using it in the last two weeks of cycle{any one?]


If you dont want to throw any more drugs at it,you should consider some OTC supps in addition.

Phosphatidylserine
Phosphatidylserine Information Phosphatidylserine Powder Medical Research and Cortisol Side Effects Benefit

TONGKAT ALI(EURYCOMA LONGIFOLIA JACK}
TONGKAT ALI (EURYCOMA LONGIFOLIA JACK)/PASAK BUMI on eBay, also Protein Shakes Bodybuilding, Vitamins Supplements, Exercise Fitness, Sporting Goods (end time 13-Jun-08 01:32:15 BST)



T3
Masterone



Dont worry
It's not a bald patch,its a solar panel for a sex machine



http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/stero...-cycle-26.html

good response...entertaining too!

[nd1024]

\

Dont worry
It's not a bald patch,its a solar panel for a sex machine

Too fucking funny, man.....................I love it.

http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/stero...-cycle-26.html[/quote]

[Riot Act]

Sorry about the lateness of my reply. Been busy (aren't we all ).

Originally Posted by jasthace

That'll be 8 weeks with just nolva for pct.
How many weeks are you planning on running the clen.with down-regulation of beta 2 receptors in mind
Clenbuterol

So you're saying to run the Nolva for 8 weeks starting AFTER the cycle ends and not start it while I still have a couple of weeks to go?

Not sure what you mean by down-regulation of beta receptors. That link won't work for me.

I was planning (and told on this board recently that it would be fine) to run it the standard 2 weeks on/2 weeks off and probably run it for about 2-3 months alongside the Prop. I wasn't planning on letting my dose get very high as I don;t handle stimulants very well. Actually, I shouldn't say that I don't handle them very well, I just mean that I don't like how I feel while using them with the sides they tend to cause.

Why do you have anger management issues?

No, I wouldn't say that. I have OCD, panic disorder and depression (these days mostly caused by poor body image, so that's not a concern). My only real concern is increased irritablity, especially since I work club security. I know that it seems to be pretty much 50/50 as far as aggression/irritability sides go, bit with my luck I'll end up getting them.

I cant see why you'd not start them at the same time.
Will you be commencing a new diet or keeping the same?

My diet is fairly clean, so I'll just be making it more strict and increasing my intake to keep my metabolism up.

What did you have in mind for the use of he proviron/arimidex?
Proviron's always good to incorporate in a cycle with is great ability to reduce free test. binding to SHBG,so with a low dose cycle like you plan it may have been a useful addition.
As far as the arimidex and nolva are concerned,with such a low dose cycle,I'd be very surprised if you have aromatisation issues,so the arimidex is not necessary IMO.
Nolva PCT only,I can't seE the benefit of using it in the last two weeks of cycle{any one?]

I was planning on using it to keep bloating down and for the supposed enhancement effects it gives the test.


As for the Nolva, I think we covered that issue above. Using it for 8 weeks after I finish the cycle and not during.

If you dont want to throw any more drugs at it,you should consider some OTC supps in addition.

Phosphatidylserine
Phosphatidylserine Information Phosphatidylserine Powder Medical Research and Cortisol Side Effects Benefit

TONGKAT ALI(EURYCOMA LONGIFOLIA JACK}
TONGKAT ALI (EURYCOMA LONGIFOLIA JACK)/PASAK BUMI on eBay, also Protein Shakes Bodybuilding, Vitamins Supplements, Exercise Fitness, Sporting Goods (end time 13-Jun-08 01:32:15 BST)

Thanks. I'll have to look around locally to see if I can find them.

T3
Masterone

Unfortunately, it's too late for me to get anything else. Besides, I'm not sure I'm comfortable with any more drugs (I hate using that word in regards to AAS), espeically T3 since it's supposedly not recommended for beginners.

Dont worry
It's not a bald patch,its a solar panel for a sex machine

Haha. Nicely done.

And I've had Phreezer's post bookmarked for quite a while now.

[jasthace]

Originally Posted by Riot Act

I'm doing 8-12 weeks (I'll see how I feel) of Prop and I'm running some Clen with it.

Originally Posted by jasthace

That'll be 8 weeks with just nolva for pct

Originally Posted by Riot Act

So you're saying to run the Nolva for 8 weeks starting AFTER the cycle ends and not start it while I still have a couple of weeks to go?

No I'm saying if you're only going to use nolva only for ptc it will be better to do the shorter cycle of 8 weeks.
And add in some anti cort and otc test boosters also.
You can start the nolva 2 weeks out if you feel it will pre empt any pct probs.but I don't believe it takes that long to work,once it hits the liver your body will react to it fast.

The two on two of schedule for clen is great it's designed with consideration for beta 2 down regulation{which basically means you become desensitized to the clen}

A six week pct is more comprehensive than a 4 week,but it really depends on the level of elevated/imbalanced estrogen & cortisone.So be sure to get the test levels up and reach homoestasis as far as the cortisone goes before discontinuing your pct.

[HDH]

Originally Posted by Riot Act

Hey, everyone. I have my gear ordered (technically it's already here, but I haven't picked it up yet). I'm doing 8-12 weeks (I'll see how I feel) of Prop and I'm running some Clen with it. Obviously, this is NOT a bulking cycle, just an overall cosmetic cycle.

Since it's not a bulking cycle, I'm fairly certain I'm only going to do the minimum and inject the Prop every 3 days at either 75mg or 100mg (I'm afraid of the mood sides, so I'm hesitant to do 100mg) instead of injecting EOD.

I think the dose is to low. If you don't want to inject 100mg EOD then at least inject 75mg EOD (that's only 262.5mg per week / 350mg would be better).

That said, I have some questions before I begin:

1) Should I start the Clen before the Prop or vice-versa or should I start them both at the same time?

Same time.

2) I could not get any Proviron/Arimidex or HCG. I could only get Nolva. Is this OK and if so, what's th best way to use Nolva with this cycle? I was thinking just running 6 weeks (last 2 weeks of the cycle and then 4 weeks afterwards).

With such a low dose you probably won't need anything else as jasthace stated. If anything like signs of gyno happen, 10mg of nolva per day should take care of it. You don't want to start your PCT for a couple of days after your last Prop inject. 6 weeks at 20mg per day will be fine.

3) With the lack of HCG, I'm worried about my boys and my sex drive. Granted, I'm 21 so hopefully that will help in that area, but is there anything I can do as a precaution? Tribulus, maybe?

During the cycle, your sex drive shouldn't be a problem. At the dose your taking you might not have to worry about shrinkage. I've never needed HCG but some do and take it. You won't know until you know.

4) This cycle is based around the goal of major fat loss and bloat is a concern. Similar to the HCG question above, is there anything I can do to compensate for lack of Proviron?

I wouldn't really worry about Proviron right now. You would do better upping the Test as I suggested.

How much weight are you trying to lose and what are your stats / training experience?

5) Im concerned about hair loss. Again, I'm 21 and I come from a family without any baldness, so that may work in my favor. However, I'm still a bit concerned. Anything I can do?

Sounds like you have nothing to worry about.

6) Anything else you guys want to suggest?

Next time run a Var cycle. At your age you shouldn't use aas that will aromatize. Your body hasn't fully matured.

I think that's all the questions for now. We'll see where the discussion goes from here.


Thanks again for all your help thus far.

HDH

[Riot Act]

Thanks, HDH.

To answer your questions, I have somewhere between 2-3 years training experience and I'm trying to lose 3-5 inches. I estimate it to be around 5-10lbs. But again, it's an overall thing, just changing my whole ratio.

As for the test, I was going to do something like Winny (more size gains than Var), but was convinced otherwise to just go for test. I realize I'm young, but do you still think there will be any harm done with just this one cycle or Prop?

As for dosage, I'm still undecided. I'm just going to keep researching and fishing for opinions like yours.

Jasthace, thanks again. I'm not too familiar with the use of cortisone. Could you possibly explain? I assume you're talking about using it PCT, but I'm not sure how it relates to my test levels and general homeostatsis.

Also, what's a good test booster in your opinion?

Lastly, what are your thoughts on my dosage?

[LifeSize]

Originally Posted by Riot Act

I realize I'm young, but do you still think there will be any harm done with just this one cycle or Prop?

I don't think you realized anything. Heh.. Do you think closing your growth plates is "harmful"? That's the major side to running AAS at your age. Plus than the usual sides of the particular compounds, and the ancillaries you chose.

[HDH]

Originally Posted by Riot Act

As for the test, I was going to do something like Winny (more size gains than Var), but was convinced otherwise to just go for test. I realize I'm young, but do you still think there will be any harm done with just this one cycle or Prop?

It depends on excess estrogen. Everyone is different.

HDH

[jasthace]

So you're still 20 yo
The growth plates in the spine can fuse as late as 25yo
Estrogen is the instigator,so as HDH says you want to avoid these types of AAS at your age
He's a bit of info for you

During puberty in both sexes, the mechanism involved in epiphyseal fusion is mediated by the action of estrogen through a cascade of events including proliferation, differentiation, and apoptosis of chondrocytes. The enzyme P450 aromatase catalyzes the aromatization of C19 androgens (androstenedione and testosterone) to C18 estrogens (estrone and estradiol). Inhibition of estrogen action by aromatase inhibitors (AIs) appears to decelerate the process of growth plate fusion, and thus AIs may be used therapeutically to increase adult height. The clinical experience with AIs in the pediatric setting is limited to testolactone, fadrozole, letrozole, and anastrozole. Testolactone, a nonselective steroidal aromatase inhibitor, has been used successfully as an adjunct to antiandrogen and gonadotropin-releasing hormone analogue (GnRHa), therapy for children with familial male-limited precocious puberty (FMPP) and congenital adrenal hyperplasia (CAH), and with some success in girls with McCune-Albright syndrome. The limitations of testolactone include its relatively low potency and the need for frequent dosing. Results of a randomized placebo-controlled trial in boys with dela puberty treated with letrozole, a selective nonsteroidal aromatase inhibitor, found that boys treated with letrozole + testosterone experienced dela bone maturation and good growth response and achieved an increase in predicted adult height. In this study, only minor differences in bone density were seen between the placebo and letrozole treatment groups, both of which were receiving concomitant testosterone therapy. No adverse effects on testis size or inhibin B concentration were noted. The therapeutic value of AIs in growth promotion now remains to be substantiated in future controlled clinical trials.

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/st...on-595632.html

About the cortisone
As you run a cycle your body will try to compensate for the exessive anabolic ratio by producing cortisone to counter it.
This is why people experience great gains for a certain period on cycle then gains will stop,because the body has reached a balance of anabolism/catabolism
cortisone is the catabolic hormone
when you come off cycle the cortisone production is high and the testosterone{anabolic} will cease
So you have a high catabolic factor this is a great way to LOSE your gains,
So an anticortsone supplement is very much in order.

[dennis]

Originally Posted by Riot Act

Thanks, HDH.

To answer your questions, I have somewhere between 2-3 years training experience and I'm trying to lose 3-5 inches. I estimate it to be around 5-10lbs. But again, it's an overall thing, just changing my whole ratio.

As for the test, I was going to do something like Winny (more size gains than Var), but was convinced otherwise to just go for test. I realize I'm young, but do you still think there will be any harm done with just this one cycle or Prop?

As for dosage, I'm still undecided. I'm just going to keep researching and fishing for opinions like yours.

Jasthace, thanks again. I'm not too familiar with the use of cortisone. Could you possibly explain? I assume you're talking about using it PCT, but I'm not sure how it relates to my test levels and general homeostatsis.

Also, what's a good test booster in your opinion?

Lastly, what are your thoughts on my dosage?

A good test booster..let's see......oh yeah...How about test enth ????

[Riot Act]

Originally Posted by LifeSize

I don't think you realized anything. Heh.. Do you think closing your growth plates is "harmful"? That's the major side to running AAS at your age. Plus than the usual sides of the particular compounds, and the ancillaries you chose.

I think that's a bit harsh. I was under the impression that my plates were already closed, personally speaking. Unless I misunderstood my doc, which is always a consideration.

Jastahce, thanks again. That makes sense.

Dennis, we were talking about OTC test boosters.

It's a bit late, now obviously since I've already purchased my gear, byt hypothetically-speaking, what would a be a good non-aromatizing alternative? I can only think of Var, Winny and Primo off the top of my head.

[LifeSize]

Originally Posted by Riot Act

I think that's a bit harsh. I was under the impression that my plates were already closed, personally speaking. Unless I misunderstood my doc, which is always a consideration.

Jastahce, thanks again. That makes sense.

Dennis, we were talking about OTC test boosters.

It actually wasn't meant to be harsh, I'm facetious very often which is hard to tell due to the fact your reading what i'm thinking and not listening to my tone. In the end we're all going to do what we want, my goal is to not violate the rules on the boards, and still make sure everyone is safe and educated.. I think its what we all want. I mean it's pretty obvious that's what all of us, newbies, long time readers, and senior/experienced members do..

Want to know my personal thought? You will probably be ok and the fact your plates close on this cycle isn't that big a deal unless you're a late bloomer. /i didn't say that out loud and I have no experience! You and your doc know you better than me/us.

Look into some ZMA, L-Glutamine, and stuff like Long Jack, Trib, and theres another one....forget the name. They all boost IGF and Test.. I used Blue-Up and high doses of Paravol along with it (herbs) and my facial hair and body hair got thicker.. im not a hairy dude but it was noticeable by my sister and insignificant other. You also have topical PH's like Dermacrine/Dermacrine Sustain...?