Actual TIME between CYCLES

[solo47]

I'm continuing the discussion from another thread so as not to steal its subject.

Originally Posted by dennis

...after you finish hcg and 4-6 weeks of nolva you will need to wait minimum 4 months and then get blood work to see if you are ready to blast off again.

[earlier] Is this a widely accepted formula? Four months after finishing PCT seems to me a trifle over-cautious, especially for younger guys. What if your bloodwork looks good two months (8 weeks) after finishing a 6-week PCT? That's 14 weeks since stopping HCG and 16 weeks in total since stopping AAS injections, so call it four months since stopping a full-on AAS cycle. Not "enough"?

Dennis, by your formula, it would be impossible to do two cycles each year. I think that's what most of us do. Am I mistaken here?

Solo

Originally Posted by bigbench

Your right solo, for younger guys it might only take 8 weeks after the cycle to be back to normal. But for bubba (and others in their 40's) it might be better to wait that long. Or at least 3 months.

Okay, I understand the caution. But our man Dennis says four months (which I'll call 30 weeks) after completing PCT. When one considers the real time that goes into a complete Post-Cycle Recovery, that begins to add up.

For example:

I do a 12 week cycle.

I follow it with four days off then 10 days of HCG therapy (continuing Adex) = 2 weeks.

I follow that with six weeks of Clomid-Nolva therapy (no Adex or HCG) in declining amounts.

That's already 8 weeks since my last long ester AAS injection (nearly two months).

Now if I were to wait another four months (i.e., 30 weeks), that's a total of six months (i.e., 38 weeks) since my last injection.

If I add to that total the nearly three months (i.e., 12 weeks) total time on the AAS cycle, that's a full nine months (i.e., 50 weeks) for one complete cycle (including both time on cycle, in PCT, & the four month "waiting" time off-cycle).

Obviously, a person can only do one full cycle (both on & off) a year this way.

Seems excessive to me, IF one's bloodwork comes back in the normal free testosterone range after two months (i.e. 9 weeks) since completing one's PCT, I think it means it's safe to begin another cycle. In this way, one can run two complete cycles, with waiting times, each year.

I should add that I am proudly well over 50, have never begun a cycle w/o getting bloodwork back showing normal-range free testosterone, and have being doing two AAS cycles a year for, well, quite some time now. I am interested in the answer to this question of time off because I have just had my bloodwork done and will get the results in two days. If all is well, I will, as usual , begin my summer cycle on June 1 — nearly two months since completing my loooooong PCT.

Dennis and Bigbench (& other experienced gentlemen-in-the-know), do you think I am being careless, stupid, or just asking for HRT?

Solo

[nd1024]

Originally Posted by solo47

I'm continuing the discussion from another thread so as not to steal its subject.



[earlier] Is this a widely accepted formula? Four months after finishing PCT seems to me a trifle over-cautious, especially for younger guys. What if your bloodwork looks good two months (8 weeks) after finishing a 6-week PCT? That's 14 weeks since stopping HCG and 16 weeks in total since stopping AAS injections, so call it four months since stopping a full-on AAS cycle. Not "enough"?

Dennis, by your formula, it would be impossible to do two cycles each year. I think that's what most of us do. Am I mistaken here?

Solo



Okay, I understand the caution. But our man Dennis says four months (which I'll call 30 weeks) after completing PCT. When one considers the real time that goes into a complete Post-Cycle Recovery, that begins to add up.

For example:

I do a 12 week cycle.

I follow it with four days off then 10 days of HCG therapy (continuing Adex) = 2 weeks.

I follow that with six weeks of Clomid-Nolva therapy (no Adex or HCG) in declining amounts.

That's already 8 weeks since my last long ester AAS injection (nearly two months).

Now if I were to wait another four months (i.e., 30 weeks), that's a total of six months (i.e., 38 weeks) since my last injection.

If I add to that total the nearly three months (i.e., 12 weeks) total time on the AAS cycle, that's a full nine months (i.e., 50 weeks) for one complete cycle (including both time on cycle, in PCT, & the four month "waiting" time off-cycle).

Obviously, a person can only do one full cycle (both on & off) a year this way.

Seems excessive to me, IF one's bloodwork comes back in the normal free testosterone range after two months (i.e. 9 weeks) since completing one's PCT, I think it means it's safe to begin another cycle. In this way, one can run two complete cycles, with waiting times, each year.

I should add that I am proudly well over 50, have never begun a cycle w/o getting bloodwork back showing normal-range free testosterone, and have being doing two AAS cycles a year for, well, quite some time now. I am interested in the answer to this question of time off because I have just had my bloodwork done and will get the results in two days. If all is well, I will, as usual , begin my summer cycle on June 1 — nearly two months since completing my loooooong PCT.

Dennis and Bigbench (& other experienced gentlemen-in-the-know), do you think I am being careless, stupid, or just asking for HRT?

Solo

I have always been a firm believer in time on = time off. If you do a 12 week cycle, and after your PCT, your natty test levels are back to normal, then I would have to say your fortunate as most people take more time to get their natty test levels to were they should be. But everyone responds diffeerant to AAS. Bloodwork is the ultimate and only defined and accurate way to tell you whether or not your ready to go. Usually the younger you are, the faster your recover. and also, how you do your cycle plays a big part in all this. I know from my experiences and others that if you run proviron durring a test cycle, regardless of whether or not your running other compounds, you will have a better chance at a faster recovery. I wont go into the dynamics of how proviron works, it gets deep, but check it out in the steroid profile. Proviron durring PCT at 75 to 100mg a day also helps in recovery, but anything above 100mg a day can actually hinder recovery. I always did 50mg a day durring cycle, and 75mg a day durring PCT, and always had speedy recoveries. I averaged 2 lengthy cycles a year for a total of 8 cycles before I called it quits, at least for now. Its been a year since I have done any AAS, and am now just doing peptides. I hit my plataue on AAS. Now I just do HGH at 4iu a day for healthy feeling purposes. And loving life.
This is my take on things.

[MrBman]

i am sorry but i strongly disagree with proviron being used in PCT, it is still moderately anabolic/androgenic - meaning it will still increase androgen levels within the body, it will in this case make it more difficult to recover, in my opinion - proviron aiding recovery is merely a flawed theory ... though i do agree that - time on = time off is always the best route to take for cycling...

[nd1024]

Originally Posted by MrBman

i am sorry but i strongly disagree with proviron being used in PCT, it is still moderately anabolic/androgenic - meaning it will still increase androgen levels within the body, it will in this case make it more difficult to recover, in my opinion - proviron aiding recovery is merely a flawed theory ... though i do agree that - time on = time off is always the best route to take for cycling...

Not theory, but fact bro. I will find the studies and post them. Proviron has ZERO anabolic properties by the way. No offense, just fact.

[HDH]

There are people trying Proviron by itself for PCT. Not much info on it right now (as far as blood work after completion).

HDH

[solo47]

Originally Posted by HDH

There are people trying Proviron by itself for PCT. Not much info on it right now (as far as blood work after completion).
HDH

C'mon, HDH, talk to the thread I started. The opinion of a supermod is badly needed here. Do you think a four-month layoff after PCT is necessary before beginning a new cycle?

Even for us finely-aged hombres, bloodwork and time on (say 12 weeks) = time off (nudder 12 weeks) has to this point seemed sufficient.

Tell us what you know, Bro.

Solo

[solo47]

Originally Posted by nd1024

I have always been a firm believer in time on = time off. If you do a 12 week cycle, and after your PCT, your natty test levels are back to normal, then I would have to say your fortunate as most people take more time to get their natty test levels to were they should be. But everyone responds diffeerant to AAS. Bloodwork is the ultimate and only defined and accurate way to tell you whether or not your ready to go. Usually the younger you are, the faster your recover. and also, how you do your cycle plays a big part in all this. I know from my experiences and others that if you run proviron durring a test cycle, regardless of whether or not your running other compounds, you will have a better chance at a faster recovery. I wont go into the dynamics of how proviron works, it gets deep, but check it out in the steroid profile. Proviron durring PCT at 75 to 100mg a day also helps in recovery, but anything above 100mg a day can actually hinder recovery. I always did 50mg a day durring cycle, and 75mg a day durring PCT, and always had speedy recoveries. I averaged 2 lengthy cycles a year for a total of 8 cycles before I called it quits, at least for now. Its been a year since I have done any AAS, and am now just doing peptides. I hit my plataue on AAS. Now I just do HGH at 4iu a day for healthy feeling purposes. And loving life.
This is my take on things.

Fine, but what exactly is "time on" and what is "time off"? If you mean time on cycle = to the time until your next cycle, do you mean time on HCG & on Nolva/Clomid PCT is included in the "time off"?

Solo

[MrBman]

Originally Posted by solo47

Fine, but what exactly is "time on" and what is "time off"? If you mean time on cycle = to the time until your next cycle, do you mean time on HCG & on Nolva/Clomid PCT is included in the "time off"?

Solo

i frankly count "time on" as the length of time your actually on gear Solo - but i include in this the amount of time it takes for the ester to clear your system ... so if i do an 8 week run of test enanthate ... i would count time "on" as being around 10weeks ...

but in honest truth man, i personally go by how i feel ... sometimes 2.5months is enough - sometimes 8 weeks, i bounce back pretty quick after a cycle ... testicles return to normal size within weeks ... weight levels off quickly, and i feel "normal" after about a 1 to 2months upon finishing a cycle ...

Now heres why i beleive time on = time off isnt a bad call - WELL more importantly, I feel that ample time off is a necessity- your body requires time to adjust to the muscle gains it has made. It takes time for it to be able to handle the newly gained weight ... if you do not give it ample time to do this, gains will slow down quickly, and you may only see yourself gaining around 4/5 pounds a year - maybe even less ... if i were to do a 4month cycle ... i would make better gains by waiting 4.5 months - rather than starting a new cycle 2months upon cessatation of my previous cycle ... it also makes recovery much easier, as cycling on too quickly and too frequently will make it difficult for the hypothalamus to reverse the negative feedback loop created by increased exogenous androgen levels, and make the testicles far more resistent to abide to your plea to get them back up to par .... but in all honesty, it is the factor of increased gains from future cycles that is probably the most rewarding benefit of waiting longer inbetween cycles

[BILLYGRINGO]

if over 50 and have cycled before , and i dont wanna get bitched slapped for this, why bother coming off ??

just stay on a maintenece cycle year round, change up your compounds.

as much knowledge is on this board there still has never been a study done on human beings on the long term effects of steroid use, EVER.... so if the govt wants to say its bad for us it must be ?????

b.s. i do believe that first and second time maybe even 4,5,6 timers need a down time and proper pct for bodily adjustments, but once you know how your body is going to react to certain compounds ???? who knows

i dont think there is really an "answer" to this question, I think its how your body feels and "blood work" what ever

just my 1 cent

[HDH]

Originally Posted by solo47

C'mon, HDH, talk to the thread I started. The opinion of a supermod is badly needed here. Do you think a four-month layoff after PCT is necessary before beginning a new cycle?

Even for us finely-aged hombres, bloodwork and time on (say 12 weeks) = time off (nudder 12 weeks) has to this point seemed sufficient.

Tell us what you know, Bro.

Solo

lol Solo

There are a lot of things to consider.........age, length of cycle, compounds used, total compounds per week, goals, comfort level and as Bman said how you feel.

As you can see, there can be a lot of different answers to this question. The best way to tell is blood work. That will help you determine how long combined with how you feel as Gringo said.

HDH

[nd1024]

Originally Posted by solo47

C'mon, HDH, talk to the thread I started. The opinion of a supermod is badly needed here. Do you think a four-month layoff after PCT is necessary before beginning a new cycle?

Even for us finely-aged hombres, bloodwork and time on (say 12 weeks) = time off (nudder 12 weeks) has to this point seemed sufficient.

Tell us what you know, Bro.

Solo

Well, if you are a young hombre, and you did a 12 week cycle, 12 weeks from first injection until you start pct. Meaning 10 weeks of actual injections EW And then take 12 weeks off after the begginning of ypour pct, and bloodwork shows your natty test to be well within normal range, then sure, you are good to go. But it is diferant for everyone. Bottom line is your bloodwork and length of cycle, how many compounds you did durring cycle and your stats. The older you are I found, the harder it is to recover. Unless you have genetics of, well, like me. HEHE. I always recovered very nicely, with good PCTs. I am 45 YO, and did last cycle a little over a year ago. My natty test last time I looked was at a little over 600ng/nl.
Just mho

[dennis]

Solo....a good debate has begun..and everyone has there own opinion.I always say that we should only do 1 really well planned cycle per year if we are not pro competitors.But fact of the matter is most of us including myself do 2 cycles per year.The reason I said 4 months is to get older guys to think before they cycle too much.The endocrine can only yo yo so much for some of us before we have to get on trt for life.For some trt for life is the way to go..just do that untill you do not feel like having sex anymore..that could be 60 for some of us and 90 for others( maybe age 104 for Solo) I would suppose.Let's say a guy cycles too much young or old....he suffers from ed and low to no natural test production...what if he cannot get gear because it is illegal or too expensive,or maybe no insurance etc..then what ???? When I say 4 months rest and you do the math and say thats only 1 cycle per year do not think of it like that..think of it as 1 cycle every 13 months !We need to teach others the real dangers of steroid abuse...the media spews untruth daily about gear but there are real dangers.

[solo47]

Well, this old horse remains in a quandary. Began my winter cycle on Dec 14 last year and went exactly 10 weeks of Tren e & Sust. Ended Feb 22. Very nice results (and great timing to look good & sexually overwhelm my new loving squeeze). Careful PCT ended April 29. My HGH has kept most of my muscle, but I admit that recently my usually voracious sex drive has flagged considerably. Since my ladyfriend is still "new" and since it's approaching summer I have been planning on beginning my next cycle on June 1 (600 of Test e & EQ weekly in two injects, beginning with Test p of course).

My blood tests to reveal current free testosterone levels will get back to me Friday. If I am below "normal" range (doctor warns these tests are not all that accurate), I will likely postpone my cycle. If not, I really want to return to full capacity, zest (etc.). Trouble izzat I am concerned by your warning posting, Dennis, plus my own current and unusual sexual lethargy. After all, I completed my long PCT only on April 29. That means it's only been little more than month since finishing PCT on June 1! I usually err on the side of caution. (OK, maybe that's an exaggeration.)

What to do, what to do...

Shall I continue to live devil may care and dangerously (as JMills does), just so I can have a fucking great summer (literally!) with driven workouts and self-display on the beach? Or shall I withdraw into my shell of caution and postpone that lust for life until I am another year older?

Gee, maybe I shouldn't have phrased the question that way. Kind of biases my answer, doncha think?

Solo

[solo47]

Originally Posted by BILLYGRINGO

if over 50 and have cycled before , and i dont wanna get bitched slapped for this, why bother coming off ??t

No offence, but it sort of sounds like chemical castration to me.

Solo

[solo47]

Originally Posted by dennis

When I say 4 months rest and you do the math and say thats only 1 cycle per year do not think of it like that..think of it as 1 cycle every 13 months !

Actually, using your four months off after PCT with the table with which I began this thread, each cycle and full recovery time would take 9 months. Therefore, I suppose we could say two cycles every 18 months!

Solo