Am I the only Female?

[buffhottie]

Hey there:

I have been lifting for about 11 years. I am competitive (Bodybuilding first then to Figure a couple years ago) and I have never ,ever done anything beyond creatine. I feel like I am doing OK genetically, but I am at a stage of the game where I am getting edged out by the girls who are getting 'help'. I have come as far as I can 'on my own'.
I am so very happy to be female. I do not want to look like a man in even the most remote way, however, a lil' nudge with the mass building and BF dropping wouldn't hurt my feelings. I have not the slightest clue how to go about it, where to go about it. Everyone knows I am 'natural' so no-one even brings it up around me which is fine becasue I intend to keep this my business.
Obviously, most of you are men. any quality advice for a female who enjoys being female but wants a little nudge?
I would rather start s..l..o..w and piss away my money the first couple times than have to deal with shaving my chin or getting a "clit-on" every time I am horny.

BTW
I am about 5'5", 128" ,currently about 16% BF. I do not intend to compete for about 5 more months. I would like to put on some muscle before then and come in at about 8 to 10% BF. I usually come in at 115 or so, but I would like to come in leaner and at around 120ish.
That's my fantasy anyway.

If you are very knowledgable about this stuff (esp. AAS w/ females) and understand my concerns about the androgenous effects, please reply

Thanks in Advance
BH

[Bob Smith]

With a name like "Buff Hottie" you just have to share jpegs! Feel free to email them to me.

Welcome to Meso! There arent many females here, but there are a bunch of guys that have experience helping women get results AND stay feminine.

[j martini]

Are you currently competing in figure or Bodybuilding.

I have seen clen have good effects on women not only in fat loss but also in some muscle gain for females anyway. clen is not an AAS it is used as a fat burner it has an anti cataboilc effect as in helping you maintain muscle while dieting. It is also anabolic in animals i havent seen an anabolic effect in men but i have with women.

As for AAS stay away from test obviously also deca and orals like dbol. The best bet for women is usually anavar, with primo and winny other options. Some women report androgenous effects with winny while others dont.

Doses or best kept low personally i would start with 5mg of anavar a day, its best to go in with a low dose instead of going in high and experiencing side effects if you dont get the desired results this can always be increased.

[Deacon]

var and or primo is the best for women as it does not cause them to turn into men or enlarge their clits;

Characteristics:

Primobolan is a well-known and popular steroid as well. Like nandrolone it's most often used as a base compound for stacking with other steroids. Methenolone however, is a DHT-based steroid (actually, DHB or dihydroboldenone, the 5-alpha reduced of the milder boldenon). Meaning when it interacts with the aromatase enzyme it does not form estrogens at all. That makes it ideal for use when cutting when excess estrogen is best avoided because of its retentive effects on water and fat. Methenolone is mostly only used in such instances, or by people who are very succeptible to estrogenic side-effects, because the anabolic activity of methenolone is slightly lower than that of nandrolone, quite likely BECAUSE it is non-estrogenic.

Because it is a widely available steroid its often used as a replacement for nandrolone or boldenone to those who have no access to Deca-Durabolin or Laurabolin or Equipoise. When stacked with a heavy mass steroid like testosterone and/or methandrostenolone it can deliver almost similar gains. Those seeking to cut will most likely be very pleased stacking it with drostanolone, stanozolol or trenbolone. Women and beginners also stack methenolone WITH nandrolone because this gives a mildly anabolic stack that is generally regarded as one of the safer stacks around in an androgenic perspective. But alas, with the nandrolone, also a very suppressive stack.

Methenolone is available as an injection or as an oral. The injection is naturally regarded as better. Its an enanthate ester which is quite long-acting and only needs to be injected once a week in doses of 300-600 mg. Because it by-passes hepatic breakdown on the first pass, it also has a higher survival rate. The orals are a lot less handy, but often preferred by bodybuilders who are afraid of needles or who are already taking one or more injectable compounds. The tabs are in a short-lived acetate form, meaning that doses of 100-150 mg per day are needed, split over 2 or 3 doses, making the tabs quite inconvenient for use. The reason doses need to be split up, unlike most oral steroids, is because Methenolone is not 17-alpha-alkylated, but 1-methylated for oral bio-availability. This reduces the liver stress, but also the availability, hence the multiple and high doses needed daily.

Like nandrolone, methenolone is very mild on the system. Probably the reason why both are strongly favored as base compounds in stacks. Methenolone has no estrogenic side-effects whatsoever, on account of its structure. Its effects on the cholesterol levels are barely noticeable. In doses of 200 mg or less (injectable) blood pressure is rarely, if at all, altered. As for hepatoxicity, long-term use will of course increase liver values but gradually and only slightly. The injections of course, since they only pass the liver once, have roughly half the liver-toxic effects of the tabs. The low liver-toxicity is accounted for that the bio-availability of methenolone is carried by a 1-methyl-group, which lessens the need for a carrier attachment such as a 17-alpha-akylated group, the main culprit in steroid-related liver afflictions.

The strangest thing however, taking into account that Primo is still a DHT (or rather DHB) derivative, is that it is quite easy on the system androgenically as well. Women use methenolone often, usually the tabs, and find little virilisation symptoms in short term use of methenolone. Long-term use may induce some acne and a deepening of the voice however. Methenolone is also not overly suppressive of the HPT axis (endocrinal axis for the production of natural testosterone). These are both the result of DHB's 1,2-double bond, which, analog to the parent structure boldenone, reduces the androgenic binding by 50% as opposed to DHT.

For athletes who wish to maintain a "natural" status in competition, the tablets are quite well-suited as detection chances for the acetate-form are quite slim. However tests have improved and quite a number of metabolites1 of methenolone can be detected with a simple urine sample. But an English study documented that there is a liability in eating methenolone contaminated meats2, which could provide a possible defense if found out. One could always claim they ate the meat of a chicken or cow injected with methenolone since the test concluded eating such meat does not improve performance, but can deliver positive tests for several methenolone metabolites almost 24 hours after ingestion. That's for those of you seeking a viable defense against a possible methenolone-positive.

Stacking and Use:

Methenolone comes in orals and injectables. The injectables are to be preferred as they can be used for quite some time and only require injecting once a week. The orals are taking every day, or multiple times a day. An oral passes through the liver twice. An injectable only once. The injectable is more effective since less is broken down.

Methenolone is not used all that often by experienced users. It makes a good product as an alternative to Deca or EQ in a cutting stack, because it has similar properties but does not aromatize and does not have progestagenic activity. But those at least slightly versed will prefer boldenone over methenolone as its more potent gram for gram. Its quite mild, so its not as prone to cause your standard side-effects. This too makes it quite popular with beginners. Methenolone was quite popular during the 70's in stacks with Methandrostenolone. Some of the all-time greats of bodybuilding were quite fond of this stack.

The common use is similar to that of Nandrolone. 300-400 mg a week, in conjunction with other steroids mostly. Some attempt to make up for the lack of potency switching from nandrolone or boldenone to methenolone by using higher doses, in the neighbourhood of 600-800 mg a week. At that point I feel it would be cheaper to opt for boldenone at 300-400 mg a week though. Methenolone makes a poor stacking partner in mass stacks as both Deca and EQ provide better results while they are qualitatively similar. There is a slight merit in stacking Methenolone with boldenone, because apart from its 1-methyl group, methenolone is basically DHB, the 5-alpha-reduced form of boldenone. But since boldenone itself has very low affinity for 5-alpha-reduction, it should have a good synergistic effect stacking the two at 300 mg/week each.

There is no use for alternate drugs since it does not aromatize, is quite mild and the gains are fairly easy to maintain, so post-cycle use of clomid or Nolvadex is not warranted.

[Deacon]

var ;

Characteristics:

AAn intrinsically weak steroid with a high price-tag and low availability, oxandrolone owes its large popularity due to its safety. In sharp contrast to oxymetholone, oxandrolone is quite generally considered to be the safest of all steroids. Its effects are more than well-documented and have been for a few decades now. The medical community values oxandrolone as a safe alternative for more harmful steroids, which is why it is considered safe for use in children and even in patients suffering hepa-toxicity as the result of alternate steroid use1.

It's most noted medical use has been in the expediting of wound healing2,3 often practically applied to the treatment of burns 4,5,6. But recently its gaining popularity again as a means of keeping weight on HIV-infected patients suffering from wasting due to the immuno-deficiency virus. It was also considered safe for use in prepubescent children with a growth delay7. No major harmful effects were noted from this particular therapy, eventhough one study8 reported that the use of oxandrolone did speed up the onset of puberty in these children. Furthermore oxandrolone has found frequent applications in the treatment of other wasting symptoms for hepatitis and cancer as well as the treatment of osteoporosis in both men and women of all ages.

Oxandrolone was introduced in the year 1964, when Searle came out with the original Anavar. It quickly became the popular drug in the sports crowd for people looking for a safer alternative to the major steroid at the time, Dianabol (methandrostenolone). It remained one of the best-sellers for well over 2 decades until it was indefinitely discontinued in the year 1989. Much to the regret of the recreational bodybuilding and powerlifting community. The prices have remained high for the little stock that remained available. The only brand readily found was oxandrolone SPA, manufactured in Milano, Italy. That is, until 1995 when its use in the treatment of the then vastly spreading immuno-deficiency disease AIDS9 sparked the interest of BTG, a US-based company who came out with Oxandrin. The first widely available oxandrolone product since Anavar production was stopped.

The main reasons for the wide-spread use of oxandrolone in sports is because it is very appealing to female athletes as well as male athletes. It causes little or no virilization properties, demonstrated by its medical uses to treat women. This is rather surprising since oxandrolone does not aromatize either. It's the only steroid that is both safe and convenient without producing excess estrogen. That makes it particularly useful when cutting up for a contest or preventing an increase in body-fat due to estrogenic effects. In fact the main use of oxandrolone to a bodybuilder is in the maintenance of lean mass while reducing body-fat. Oxandrolone itself may not actually reduce body-fat, but it too plays a key role in the process. Like most non-aromatizing compounds it has a repressing effect on the appetite making it easier for the user to control cravings and stay strict with his diet.

Oxandrolone also has little effect on the body's own natural hormone production. The negative feedback was found to be very minor, meaning that during short term use no suppression of Gonadotropin releasing hormone (GnRH, start of natural testosterone production) was noted. This meant that whatever gains made, as little as they may have been, were very easily maintained post-cycle. So there was also no use for products like Clomid or Nolvadex in conjunction with oxandrolone consumption. The easy to maintain low gains would indicate a low binding to the androgen receptor. While not extremely high, it should actually be noted that it does have quite decent binding to the androgen receptor. But the reason for its mild effects is quite likely the low dose used. Rarely if ever are doses higher than 20 mg used on a daily basis. Either because of convenience or due to the high price. But comparing that the doses of other steroids this is remarkably low. So its only logical the gains and side-effects aren't particularly notable.

Of course a bodybuilder has limited use for a compound that is both a weak androgen in the doses mostly used and doesn't aromatize since no mentionable effect on mass can be produced to satisfy the chemically enhanced athlete. Therefor it is best noted that oxandrolone is most popular with power- and weightlifters to enhance strength without increasing bodyweight. This is valued highly since strength athletes often compete in weight-classes. Oxandrolone does not increase strength through androgenic stimulation, at least not primarily. It stimulates the formation of phosphocreatine, a body compound that can replenish ATP (adenosine tri-phosphate) , the main energy currency of the living organism. This gives an incredible increase in short term anaerobic performance, the type needed for explosive action such as sprinting and lifting weight.

For bodybuilders the best results are seen when stacking oxandrolone with a highly androgenic compound. Either during a mass stack with aromatizable products to boost strength a little more, or in conjunction with a non-estrogenic compound. This is most beneficial since it can maintain lean mass, decrease appetite, improve sharpness of the muscle and keep strength levels up without giving increased androgenic risk (acne, prostate hypertrophy, hair loss) when stacked with pure androgens (stanozolol, drostanolone). For those looking for safe maintenance of muscle mass a stack of Anavar with Primobolan is not a bad investment (but a big investment). The common use of oxandrolone is estimated, at 0.125 mg per pound of bodyweight. For men it should be closer to 0.2 mg per pound, for women 0.08 mg per pound per day.

The downsides to oxandrolone are minor. The worst problem by far is the poor availability and high price. But it has to be noted that, eventhough oxandrolone is nowhere near Halotestin or anadrol in hepa-toxicity, it too is a 17-alpha-alkylated substance that can cause liver damage if used for long periods on end. Other common side-effects include headaches, loss of libido, diarrhea and dizziness.

The conclusion to follow these paragraphs is of course that oxandrolone is understandably still a popular and very versatile steroid, much desired by both experienced athletes and novice users because of its many properties. While few will say this is the best or their favorite steroid, you won't find many that will have anything negative to say about it either.

Stacking and Use:

Because of its mild nature and the low doses generally used with oxandrolone there is very little use for secondary compounds like anti-aromatase drugs, estrogen receptor antagonists or blood pressure medication. That in itself may somewhat make up for the high cost and little gains made on it.

In stacks Anavar is sometimes used to increase strength or help maintain it during mass phases. Oxandrolone obviously has very little to add in terms of mass compared to the other substances used to obtain such goals. It fades in comparison to test, Deca, Anadrol, D-bol and such. Nonetheless it is added quite often, perhaps because people assume it will make the overall stack less hazardous, but that's a myth of course. Frankly I would imagine there are better and cheaper things to waste your money on if mass is what you seek.

On a cutting phase oxandrolone makes a good match for 120-140 mcg of clenbuterol daily stacked with something in the nature of Halotestin or Winstrol. The combination improves muscle hardness and striation as well as support mass and strength retention. Experienced users would preferably add testosterone propionate or Equipoise no doubt, rather than Halotestin or Winstrol due to less hazard to the liver associated with those two drugs, especially Halotestin.

Mostly it is used for decent strength gains without gaining too much weight, particularly suited for weight- and powerlifters and martial artists. In that aspect, and in my humble opinion, Winstrol would be a good choice for a stack. 50 mg of Winstrol every day to every other day stacked with 30-40 mg of oxandrolone daily would give a very good result in overall strength enhancement without adding a mentionable amount of weight to the frame.

[greyowl]

Originally Posted by buffhottie

Hey there:

I have been lifting for about 11 years. ...

Thanks in Advance
BH

Durabolin is attractive to women BBers because it is very fast acting and clears the body within days. So if a symptom of virilization starts presenting itself, you can shut it down immediately by stopping. An injection of between 50 and 75 mg max per week is supposed to be enough to see gains with little risk of sides.

Deca is a slow-acting version of durabolin so of course you want to stay away from that. Primo and Winstrol are bad choices too.

I know that women competitors will take strongly androgenic AASs like testosterone at low doses for very short periods just before a competition to muscle up a bit without virilization. More than that I couldn't tell you.

For fat burners, I wouldn't recommend clenbuterol to anyone. There's enough reliable info out there that shows it can screw up your heart.

I think DNP at a dose of 250 each day would be ideal for a woman. I've been on that dose for three weeks with barely noticeable sides and I'm a small guy. There's a thread on DNP stickied near the top of this forum.

[buffhottie]

Thanks for the input.
I am currently competing in Figure. I competed in BB originally until the NPC/IFBB introduced Figure. Since 2002, I have done Figure. I know that many of the girls I have competed against do it (juice). I was of the (ignorant) mindset that all Fig. competitors were clean. After all, it isn't BB. I have had several of the more successful Fig. competitors just straight up tell me "Well, hell yes, I do it!" I know there must be more who just aren't fessin' up. I am actually pretty shapely considering I have never gone the pharm route. I can't help but wonder "If I am not doing to poorly clean, could I come in even harder and more shapely with a little help?"
From what I gave read online I was thinking of the very low dose Anavar. I don't think I will go the winny route just cuz I am too afraid of even the teeniest manly side effect.
I heard (actually read) that clen can cause heart palpitations and sleeplessness.
Is Anavar going to cause me to hold water? Is it anabolic? or anticatabolic? or both. sorry..I am a total newbie baby.
Also, where do I get it? I am not about to appraoch anyone in my gym. They all know I am squeeky clean and would shit a mammal.............Anyway, can't, won't go that route formany reasons.
There are places online but I don't know who is legit.

Thanks for the response. Much appreciated
BH

[buffhottie]

I was posting at the same time as you. Thanks for the info on the Clen.
I don't want to be hot and dead. I'd rather be out of shape and alive..

[buffhottie]

Thanks for the education. I am printing these posts as I will want to read it a coupe times for sure.
BH

[MANWHORE]

I'm just waiting for the pics

[hooker]

Originally Posted by Deacon

var and or primo is the best for women as it does not cause them to turn into men or enlarge their clits;

Incorrect.

Both Anavar as well as Primobolan are derived from Dihydrotestosterone, which is the primary hormone responsible for fetal development of genital size. This is why all DHT derived hormones are able to cause clitoral enlargement, although it is often only temporary.

It will not, however, turn a woman into a man....but in my (personal) experience, the enlarged clitoris is usually the most welcome side effect from Anavar.

[Bigkarch]

please stick around..we need females are here for us and want this knowledge...

[ag-guys]

Personally, I do not suggest women "stack" just anavar is good to start as Deacon pointed out.

AG
www.ag-guys.com

[buffhottie]

I sure appreciate all the input. Really I do. I am confused now. I went to another board where some woman do hangout although the posts are not nearly as frequent (1 a month vs. several a day on this board) and one girl said (in her post ) that Anavar caused irreversable sides like the facial hair, hoarse voice etc. She mentioned several other drugs so I couldn't tell if she had taken the Anavar with something else or not, but she blamed the Anavar.
The Anavar comes up a lot. I see that many also do the Primobolin Depot and the Winny. One gal said Winny put like 30# on her. Is that possible? I don't want 30# of muscle to be honest. 10 or 12# would be nice
I also wouldn't mind coming in tighter. When I try to come in super lean, I feel I risk looking stringy and lose my shape. I am Nat. Level, no pro-card yet material. I aspire to a body like Monica Brandt. A wee bit muscular for Figure but still very much a girl. I have really small bones. esp for my height (5'5") which helps my muscles show up but I do not have the 'presence' that some of the bigger girls have. Some judges like it (Small joints, somewhat leaner) and score me high, some don't and score me behind the bigger boned gals. Point being. I need more shape (ie: muscle) to make up for the small frame. I think often I am head to head with them on shear muscle but they *look* bigger because of the bigger bones. Also some of the gals that are passing me up to snag their pro card are clearly leaner with striations etc. I know that it's Figure and the guidelines say "moderate muscle, not too lean.. blah,blah" but it's BS cuz I know what those judges are looking for. Its the body of the old-school bodybuilder with a new name 'Figure'
I want to come in 10# heavier and even leaner.
I have said that like 6 times. I am babbling.
I'll check back later. Thanks so much
BH

[Bob Smith]

Originally Posted by buffhottie

I sure appreciate all the input. Really I do. I am confused now. I went to another board where some woman do hangout although the posts are not nearly as frequent (1 a month vs. several a day on this board) and one girl said (in her post ) that Anavar caused irreversable sides like the facial hair, hoarse voice etc. She mentioned several other drugs so I couldn't tell if she had taken the Anavar with something else or not, but she blamed the Anavar.

Ive never heard of virilizing effects from anavar, and certainly not strong virilizing effects. Since anavar is typically more expensive, its quite possible that she thought she was taking anavar and was actually taking winny. Lots of women experience clitoral enlargement and other side effects from winny.

I aspire to a body like Monica Brandt.

Mmm...Monica has a scrumptuous...uhh, nevermind.

I know that it's Figure and the guidelines say "moderate muscle, not too lean.. blah,blah" but it's BS cuz I know what those judges are looking for. Its the body of the old-school bodybuilder with a new name 'Figure'

Well, if you take away some of the leanness of the old-school women BBers, what do you end up with? Miss America contestants. Very hot, for sure, but not as athletic looking.