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Originally Posted by Bigkarch Yes hcg will increase estrogen levels but if you use in only for 7-10 days, it wont do any harm...I also advocate using nolva and or clomid or even dex during that period of hcg usage because of that.
One thing you said that you use dex only for pct. Why not nolva and or clomid? I dont believe dex will help jump start your natural test production as clomid and nolva are known to. |
BigKarch,
That may be sound advice about using both Nolvadex & Arimidex at the end of a cycle & I believe if Nolvadex is used at the end only you limit its side effects. I have used Nolvadex at the end of my cycle with Arimidex in the past. (No More) Nolvadex has a warning on its label. Because of this warning I am trying to downplay Nolvadex use. IMHO Arimidex does work better at jump starting testosterone than given credit for though. 8) Hayes FJ, et al. "Aromatase inhibition in the human male reveals a hypothalamic site of estrogen feedback." J Clin Endocrinol Metab 2000 Sep;85(9):3024-6
9) Mauras N, et al. "Estrogen suppression in males: metabolic effects." J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2001 Apr;86(4):1836-8
The warnings for Nolvadex:
Side Effects of Tamoxifan:
Along with its needed effects, a medicine may cause some unwanted effects. Some side effects will have signs or symptoms that you can see or feel. Your doctor will watch for others by doing certain tests.
Also, because of
the way this medicine acts on the body, there is a chance that it might cause other unwanted effects that may not occur until months or years after the medicine is used. Tamoxifen increases the chance of cancer of the uterus (womb) in some women taking it. Tamoxifen may cause blockages to form in a vein, lung, or brain. In women, tamoxifen may cause cancer or other problems of the uterus (womb). It also causes liver cancer in rats. In addition,
tamoxifen has been reported to cause cataracts and other eye problems. Discuss these possible effects with your doctor.
Check with your doctor as soon as possible if any of the following side effects occur:
For both females and males
Less common or rare
Anxiety; blistering, peeling, or loosening of skin and mucous membranes; blurred vision; chest pain; confusion; cough; dizziness; fainting; fast heartbeat; lightheadedness; pain or swelling in legs; shortness of breath or trouble breathing; weakness or sleepiness; yellow eyes or skin
For females only
Less common or rare
Change in vaginal discharge; chills ; fever; hoarseness; lower back or side pain; pain or feeling of pressure in pelvis; pain, redness, or swelling in your arm or leg; painful or difficult urination ; rapid shallow breathing; skin rash or itching over the entire body; sweating ; vaginal bleeding; wheezing
For females and males
Frequency not determined
Bloating; constipation; darkened urine; diarrhea; difficult breathing; indigestion; itching; joint or muscle pain; large, hard skin blisters; large hive-like swelling on face, eyelids, lips, tongue, throat, hands, legs, feet, and sex organs; loss of appetite; nausea; pain in stomach or side, possibly radiating to the back; red, irritated eyes; red skin lesions, often with a purple center; sore throat; sores, ulcers or white spots in mouth or on lips; unusual tiredness or weakness; vomiting
This medicine may also cause the following side effect that your doctor will watch for:
For both females and males
Less common or rare
Cataracts in the eyes or other eye problems; liver problems
Other side effects may occur that usually do not need medical attention. These side effects may go away during treatment as your body adjusts to the medicine. Also, your health care professional may be able to tell you about ways to prevent or reduce some of these side effects. Check with your health care professional if any of the following side effects continue or are bothersome or if you have any questions about them:
For both females and males
Less common
Bone pain; headache; nausea and/or vomiting (mild); skin rash or dryness
For females only
More common
Absent, missed, or irregular periods; confusion; decrease in amount of urine; feeling of warmth redness of the face, neck, arms and occasionally, upper chest; lower back or side pain; menstrual changes; nausea; noisy, rattling breathing; painful or difficult urination; rapid, shallow breathing; skin changes; stopping of menstrual bleeding; swelling of fingers, hands, feet, or lower legs; troubled breathing at rest; vaginal bleeding; weight gain; weight loss; white or brownish vaginal discharge
Less common or rare
Abdominal cramps; black, tarry stools ; bleeding gums; blood in urine or stools; Bluish color changes in skin color ; discouragement; feeling sad or empty; irritability; itching in genital area; lack of appetite; loss of interest or pleasure; pain; pinpoint red spots on skin; stomach or pelvic discomfort, aching or heaviness; swelling ; trouble concentrating; trouble sleeping; unusual bleeding or bruising
For males only
Less common
decreased interest in sexual intercourse; inability to have or keep an erection; loss in sexual ability, desire, drive, or performance
This medicine may infrequently cause hair thinning or partial loss of hair.
Other side effects not listed above may also occur in some patients. If you notice any other effects, check with your doctor.
I am a bit put off by the warning on eye health,
Seperate issue: Fluoxymesterone
J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1977 Jan;44(1):121-9 (ISSN: 0021-972X)
Jones TM; Fang VS; Landau RL; Rosenfield RL
Long term daily administration of fluoxymesterone (9alpha-fluoro-17alpha-methyl-11beta, 17beta-dihydroxyandrost-4-en-3-one) was associated with a modest suppression of sperm production and a profound suppression of testosterone levels in the absence of significant effects on plasma gonadotropin levels. Nine normal male volunteers took either 10, 20, or 30 mg of fluoxymesterone daily for twelve weeks. Plasma samples were obtained for testosterone, estrogen, LH and FSH levels at biweekly intervals before, during and for up to 12 weeks after fluoxymesterone treatment. Samples were obtained for dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate, testosterone binding globulin and free testosterone assays at representative times before, during and after treatment. Although lower sperm counts were observed at several points during both the treatment and follow up periods, significant consistent suppression of spermatogenesis could not be demonstrated. Reduced plasma testosterone levels were seen within 24 h after beginning fluoxymesterone, and further reductions were noted throughout the treatment period.
Changes in plasma estrogen levels did not correlate with fluoxymesterone administration. Neither plasma LH nor plasma FSH levels were significantly altered by fluoxymesterone. A short term study utilizing a single dose of fluoxymesterone yielded similar findings.
It is proposed that fluoxymesterone has a local effect on the Leydig cell which is not mediated by gonadotropins.
It is mt belief this study started the wrong thinking on Fluoxy aromatization. The first Bold area points out "Changes in plasma estrogen levels did not correlate with Fluoxy administration" This may have lead some to believe it was converting to estrogen. IMHO you can not make that conclusion from this study. Somebody out on the internet I believe did. The last bold part is how Fluoxy has a local effect to suppress Testosterone production. This study did not say no change took place in estrogen level just that it was not correlated to the Fluoxy. That means estrogen may have been correlated to the lower Testosterone level from Fluoxy use? Who knows what it means? I would say the structure of Fluoxy can not convert to Estrogen & the Child height study backs that up. I may be wrong as stated & I welcome that being pointed out,
focus
Arimidex VS femmera 
Linear Mode
