Bill Roberts, Insulin supress SHBG

[jb55638]

Is it true that slin will supress SHBG??

[SWALE]

I wish Bill Roberts was here.

[jb55638]

So, doc, do you have an answer to the ???

[ag-guys]

Is there a place to read the information by Bill Roberts? I have not found anything on this yet.

AG
www.ag-guys.com

[SWALE]

I cannot imagine using insulin in other than cases of Type I diabetes. Inducing a state like Type II diabetes (which is what elevated insulin levels mean) is toxic to the organs.

I can tell you that Type II diabetics tend to be "estrogen dominant", with high SHBG concentrations.

[prolangtum]

The relationship between serum levels of insulin and sex hormone- binding globulin in men: the effect of weight loss
G Strain, B Zumoff, W Rosner and X Pi-Sunyer
Division of Endocrinology and Metabolism, Mount Sinai Medical Center, New York, New York 10029.

It is known that there is an inverse relationship between the serum levels of insulin and sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) in women, but the relationship in men has not been reported. It is not known whether changes in the one cause changes in the other, or whether they change in opposite directions in response to some third factor. Because obesity raises insulin levels and lowers SHBG levels in both sexes, we proposed to study the cause-effect question by determining whether the relationship between changes in SHBG and insulin levels during active weight loss. We studied 70 healthy weight-stable men with body mass index (BMI) from 20.7-94 (normal, 22.5 +/- 2.5) and restudied 17 of them during diet-induced weight loss. Fasting serum insulin levels in the weight-stable men showed a positive linear correlation with BMI, increasing 1 microU/mL per unit increase in BMI (P < 0.0001). SHBG levels in the weight-stable men showed a negative linear correlation with BMI, decreasing 0.2 nmol/L per unit increase in BMI (P < 0.0002). In the weight-stable men, there was an inverse hyperbolic correlation between SHBG and insulin levels; SHBG (nmol/L) = 13.1 + [30.1 divided by insulin (microU/mL)] (P < 0.002). During weight loss, insulin levels decreased at an average rate of 6.1 microU/mL per unit decrease in BMI, a much higher slope than the positive slope vs. BMI in weight stable men. During weight loss, SHBG levels increased at an average slope of 0.43 nmol/L per unit decrease in BMI, much higher than the negative slope of 0.2 nmol/L per unit increase in BMI in weight-stable men. Values for the SHBG vs. insulin coordinates in the weight-losing subjects did not differ significantly from those expected from the SHBG vs. insulin equation in weight-stable subjects. The stability of the SHBG-insulin relationship during weight loss despite the profoundly altered relationship of each separate component to BMI strongly suggests a close metabolic link between SHBG and insulin. As SHBG is not known to alter the production or metabolism of insulin, whereas insulin has been shown in vitro to decrease the synthesis of SHBG, it seems a reasonable conclusion that the predictable inverse relationship between serum insulin and SHBG indicates that insulin controls SHBG synthesis in vivo.

[jb55638]

That's what I thought. Bill's insight would still be good.

[jb55638]

HMMMM. SWALE bing Mr. Negative as usual. You can't find any reason to use slin except type1 diabetes...........WHAT ABOUT FOR ANABOLIC MUSCLE GAIN, DOC! Body builders use it, as they also use testosterone to put on muscle. So, does this mean you can't see any reason to use Test except in Testoseteone deficiencey cases??

Some times I wonder, bro, WHY DO YOU EVEN BOTHER WITH THIS BORED? I also find it interesting that you critisize Anthony (Bill) Roberts, as he is one of the main writers for Meso, your a doc with a critical opinion of all who are not. SHUT UP!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now, go ahead and critisize what I have said---as you always open your fat mouth after some one bust you.

PS: I'm not even on gear and you piss me off. ALso, my dad has been a type 1 diabetic for 20 years; so I'm no fool on the subject, DOC.

[j martini]

Originally Posted by SWALE

I cannot imagine using insulin in other than cases of Type I diabetes. Inducing a state like Type II diabetes (which is what elevated insulin levels mean) is toxic to the organs.

I can tell you that Type II diabetics tend to be "estrogen dominant", with high SHBG concentrations.

Yeah, probably true. But us bodybuliders will take chances with or health to achieve the physique we desire.

I will quote Markus Ruhl a pro bodybuilder. "People ask me all the time if what i do is healthy, thats funny, i didnt get into bodybuliding to be healthy i got into it to be a freak".

[SWALE]

jb55638--If you are so foolish that the comments of a doctor who is quite expert in this area bring you to such a nonsensical post, then perhaps YOU should not publish your comments. You embarrass yourself.

The fact you have been duped by that clueless charlatan Anthony Roberts, who would not survive five minutes in an academic environment, speaks well of your intellectual abilities.

And he is not "one of the main writers of this Board". In fact, he won't even show his face around here now that I have exposed him for the clueless phony he is. He won't respond to anyone on any Board who questions his nonsense. Some expert, eh?

BTW, I was referring to Bill Roberts of T-Mag fame. HE knows what he is taking about. You don't even know who you are talking about. Anthony Roberts is clueless. But maintain your ignorance; your choice. If you get so "pissed off" by simple truth, and cannot distinguish facts from a doctor from the phony musings of someone who has absolutely no training or knowledge base in these topics, then you need help.

It's not a matter of being "Mr. Negative" as it is "Dr. Truth". If you want to fool yourself into thinking anyone can use steroids, and induce a state of DMII, without consequences to their health, well, just keep on reading Anthony Roberts. You are two of a kind. LOL.

And you mean "Board", not "bored". And if you are not on steroids, why are YOU on this Board? LOL.

Did you have any more stupid comments to make, as you hide beind your computer monitor? BTW, you are the newest member of "The Nitwit Club". Congrats.

The conclusion in the posted study is not warranted--just plain bad science.

Ask any doctor who is knowledgeable of this topic, and they will state that Type II Diabetics--who have extremely high insulin levels (as bodybuilders who use slin have induced) also have elevated SHBG levels. This is very common knowledge. In fact, we can categorically state that adult Type II diabetics are "estrogen dominant".

Aromatase lives in fat. Therefore putting on more fat brings withit more estrogenic conversion. Estrogen elevates SHBG levels. Putting on more fat, which elevates insulin levels, also raises estrogen and SHBG. There you have it.

Insulin also increases the activity of the delta-5-desaturase enzyme, there by dramatically increasing the generalized inflammatory response which is part and parcel of so many serious chronic diseases. This is also where water retention can come from.

And let's not forget the simple fact that SHBG level are of absolutely no concern whatsoever to AAS users. None.

[SWALE]

Understanding the physiological processes as I do, I have to tell you all that insulin use scares me more than AAS. It's not just the risk of someone going into insulin shock--seen that twice during my medical career, and it is absolutely terrifying--which can kill you literally within minutes, but IMPO it does more actual long-term damage than the sex hormones do.

[jb55638]

Hmm, thanks for the advice. That is the kind of post one would expect from a doctor. Yep, I went back and read my post today; it was laced with gramatical errors. I think I was on my prescribed clonazapam at the time. That would explain the rant. Sorry, however, you did piss me off when you said you could not imagine any reason outside of being a type 1. That still seems silly to me. There are SO many post of juicers using insulin successfully. Further, you say that SHBG is not important to body builders........once again, I disagree from empirical evidence in the MANY POST about SHBG. Oh well.

[jb55638]

Oh yeah, I am not juicing at the moment. That is not to say that I do not plan on future use. I still enjoy reading opinions and staying current on any information out there.

[SWALE]

Let me explain some actual medicine to you. The concentration of androgens present during an AAS cycle so overuns the ability of SHBG to gobble them up that Free Testosterone (or other androgens, as the case may be) is basically what you have in your bloodstream. SHBG levels simply do not and can not increase indefinitely.

Does that make sense now?

It does not matter what is posted, or commonly posted, on these Boards. The simple truth is that some of it has no basis in fact. The same nonsense gets posted over and over again, until it is accepted, without anyone giving a single thought to whether it is true or even makes sense. This is a good example.

[MANWHORE]

Originally Posted by jb55638

Is it true that slin will supress SHBG??

As far as i know YES but there are safer things to take for this same purpose .. Tren,any DHT product .. If SHBG suppression is all you are looking for from Slin,then i say forget it.