Diet or Bulk? Which first? Advice?

[Joffa]

I'm currently 6ft, 215 lbs., 23 y/o with a nice layer of fat on me; I'm guessing about 15-20% bf. Been training for 6 years. My last cycle was this past fall I did a cycle of anadrol / test E / EQ / slin and got up to 221. My knee is finally feeling recovered and ready for another cycle. These days I'm looking so smooth from the fat. I'm wondering should I diet first, and then do my AAS cycle or vice versa or somehow both at once?? I've got some DNP, Clen, T4, Anadrol, slin, Test E and EQ. How should I run this? I definitely want to add more size, but I'm also getting tired of looking fat and smooth. Should I run DNP for 2 weeks before starting my cycle to shed 10 lbs. or so of fat? Or should I just bulk and put on more size and fat and then run the DNP after? Any advice bros??

~Joffa

[Beefy]

How big were you before you did that last cycle? No offense, bro, but 221 @ 6ft tall after all of that gear isn't very impressive in my book. Especially since you are so young.

[Joffa]

I absolutely agree with you. I have horrible genetics for bodybuilding Before the last cycle I think I was around 205-208. I actually worked really hard and ate well. Last cycle I only used 500mg test E / 400mg EQ for 8 weeks and 50mg Anadrol for the first 4 weeks to start it off.

~Joffa

[tHe_ShOcKeR]

alright, let me get this straight...

been working out for 6 years, you've already done a cycle, and you are about to another one...and you're only 215 "with a nice layer of fat", which implies even less of that weight is muscle. i also that off your last cycle, you only gained 7 lbs...

apparently you aren't doing something right. i suggest you get your training and diet in good shape before you throw another cycle at your body. just my 2 cents

[miamiblue]

I'm kinda in the same boat. My first cycle was pretty pitiful! And I have the solid smooth look going too. My whole like I've been really sold with a lot of bulk. I'm about to start my next cycle in a month or so. Right now I'm going really extreme on the diet and hardcore on the cardio to shed that fat. Only thing is I want to cut up a little bit and not get the bulkyness, if you know what I mean. I'm assuming I'll just up the reps... (Doing my research now....)

[Joffa]

Originally Posted by tHe_ShOcKeR

alright, let me get this straight...

been working out for 6 years, you've already done a cycle, and you are about to another one...and you're only 215 "with a nice layer of fat", which implies even less of that weight is muscle. i also that off your last cycle, you only gained 7 lbs...

apparently you aren't doing something right. i suggest you get your training and diet in good shape before you throw another cycle at your body. just my 2 cents

Believe it or not, it's true. Sad, but true. I started off at age 17 at 155 pounds at 6ft. Going from 155-215 over 6 years really isn't that bad is it? I think keeping 10 pounds a year isn't that bad? I've been on Meso for about 4 of those years. I've done several cycles over the past 5 years. I train really hard and eat right, I just think I have really lousy genetics.

To all you guys who have good genetics, you'll never know the frustration of training as hard as you can, eating right, using AAS and still seeing little results Either way, I'm deterimined to make it into amateur bodybuilding. I'll just keep going slow and gaining 10 pounds a year. Maybe by the time I'm thirty-five I'll finally be big enough to compete. LOL.

So, with all that said, any advice on what order I should run my cycles?

~Joffa

[tHe_ShOcKeR]

damn, dude, it sucks to have those genes...but it's cool that you're still so determined...mad props, dude....mad props... my body sucks at burning fat, but luckily it puts muscle on rather easily...so my genes are only half-bad i guess?


anyhoo, i've heard of a lot of guys running the DNP post-cycle...if you run it during your cycle you'll definitely inhibit your gains...however if you run it after the cycle, it will negatively affect your training (maybe) and it might make you lose more of your gains than usual... so, honestly, i don't know what to tell ya. if you usually do pretty good at retaining weight, you can probably go ahead and run it at the end of the cycle in order to help burn any fat gained during the cycle.

[KILLYOU]

Clen And T-3 Cycle W/ Cardio ,proper Diet, And Traing ! Repeat Cycle Until You Reach Desired Body Fat! Once You Reach Your Desired Bodyfat You Could Do T-3 Small Dosages W/ As Cycle It Will Improve Your Cycle!

[Joffa]

Originally Posted by tHe_ShOcKeR

damn, dude, it sucks to have those genes...but it's cool that you're still so determined...mad props, dude....mad props... my body sucks at burning fat, but luckily it puts muscle on rather easily...so my genes are only half-bad i guess?

Thanks, Shocker. Ya know those guys that carry around a cooler filled with food, a gallon jug of water and train balls to the wall year round? That's me, but I only gain 10 pounds a year. I lug all that food and water around with me everyday all over campus and eat in between class every 3 hours. I train my heavy workouts early morning before class 3 times a week and I train my calves/abs 3 times a week at night after my night classes. I work my calves 3 times a week b/c otherwise they do not grow at all. Thanks for the props though; having bad genetics just makes me train harder. Anyone who's ever told me over the years that I don't have the genetics for bodybuilding or who's told me my body wasn't meant to be "big", just makes me train harder, and one day I'm going to stand up on that stage and compete and it's gonna make me smile that much bigger :-D

~Joffa

[treeistheman2]

Originally Posted by Joffa

Believe it or not, it's true. Sad, but true. I started off at age 17 at 155 pounds at 6ft. Going from 155-215 over 6 years really isn't that bad is it? I think keeping 10 pounds a year isn't that bad? I've been on Meso for about 4 of those years. I've done several cycles over the past 5 years. I train really hard and eat right, I just think I have really lousy genetics.

To all you guys who have good genetics, you'll never know the frustration of training as hard as you can, eating right, using AAS and still seeing little results Either way, I'm deterimined to make it into amateur bodybuilding. I'll just keep going slow and gaining 10 pounds a year. Maybe by the time I'm thirty-five I'll finally be big enough to compete. LOL.

So, with all that said, any advice on what order I should run my cycles?

~Joffa

bro ,there are guys i know that would be proud to have maDE progress you have!!!!!!!! you are one of those guys that has to work for every thing they gain.

[J DUB]

I am sorry, but there is something wrong if you only gained 7lb off that cycle. You can say horrible genetics all you want, but that is an excuse and nothing more. You need to eat more and learn how to train correctly. Maybe I missed it, but I don't think I have ever seen you post in the training section. Until you get your training and diet right, AAS will continue to not do much for you. Why don't you post your usual training routine in the training section and let people critique it instead of staying in this section and asking about steroids, etc? I apologize if this comes across as harsh, but it is the truth and I hope you realize that.

[Beefy]

Maybe you had bad gear on the last cycle. Steroids over-ride genetics, bro. Unless you've got a serious health problem, bad genes mixed with good training, diet, and AAS still equals gains of more than 7 lbs. Check your source. You probably had bad gear.

[Ronin_]

Originally Posted by Beefy

Maybe you had bad gear on the last cycle. Steroids over-ride genetics, bro. Unless you've got a serious health problem, bad genes mixed with good training, diet, and AAS still equals gains of more than 7 lbs. Check your source. You probably had bad gear.

Theres quite alot of truth in that, well to the extent you should check your gear.

What doses do you use?

You should do a cutting cycle if you think youre 15-20%, you will just come out of a bulker fatter with less lean mass and have more work to do later, and have a poorer glucose tolerance for building and maintaining lean mass when you come off

[Joffa]

Originally Posted by J DUB

I am sorry, but there is something wrong if you only gained 7lb off that cycle. You can say horrible genetics all you want, but that is an excuse and nothing more. You need to eat more and learn how to train correctly. Maybe I missed it, but I don't think I have ever seen you post in the training section. Until you get your training and diet right, AAS will continue to not do much for you. Why don't you post your usual training routine in the training section and let people critique it instead of staying in this section and asking about steroids, etc? I apologize if this comes across as harsh, but it is the truth and I hope you realize that.

I went from 205-221 last cycle and was happy with that. In the past couple months since coming off, I have lost some weight as expected and am now down to 215. So officially during the cycle I did gain 16 pounds which isn't bad in my book.

As for posting in the training section, I post very little here on meso; I normally just read. I've been on here for about 4 years or so (I'm sure some of the mods / old timers on here can attest to this) and have tried to learn everything I can about training, diet and drugs. Honestly, I'm quite disappointed that I'm being treated as a newbie. I'm not one of those people who believe that one can train badly and diet poorly and then just take alot of juice and grow. I have to get everything correct to even grow at all! I'm extremely obsessive about my diet and training! Many use poor genetics as an excuse; please don't confuse me with those who do. I use it as a motivator. For instance I have been tempted to raise the dose of AAS this past cycle in the fall, but I decided to run low doses and instead tweak my diet and training better. This past fall cycle has been my 5th or 6th cycle or so over the past few years and I only used 500mg Test E / 400mg EQ a week for 8 weeks, along with 50mg anadrol ED for the 1st 4 weeks. I was tempted to try running the test at a gram to see if it would help me get better gains, but instead I ran it low and worked harder on my training and diet. For a 5th cycle, to go from 205-221 at low dose seems pretty good to me, no? For my next cycle, should I try raising the doses? Maybe 500mg a week of test isn't enough for me anymore?

~Joffa

[jboldman]

joffa, many expect unreasonable gains from a cycle. 7lbs of good solid lean mass is a respectable gain make no mistake about it especially for someone into their fifth cycle. If you can continue to make gains of this nature at your existing doses, that is whati i would do, do not bump it up until you have to, there is no rush.

jb