Does Nolvadex Reduce Water Retention???

[Millineum Man]

Guys, does Nolvadex reduce water retention? I know Arimidex would be a WHOLE lot better for this. But I only plan on using 500mgs of Test Enanthate a week and Arimidex might be considered overkill for such a moderate amount. I want to stay dry throughout the cycle. Would Nolvadex@20mgs ED be enough to keep the water down?? Would add something? Or use something different? Also, I do not buy into "Nolvadex reduces gains theory."

[singmanr]

Originally Posted by Millineum Man

Guys, does Nolvadex reduce water retention? I know Arimidex would be a WHOLE lot better for this. But I only plan on using 500mgs of Test Enanthate a week and Arimidex might be considered overkill for such a moderate amount. I want to stay dry throughout the cycle. Would Nolvadex@20mgs ED be enough to keep the water down?? Would add something? Or use something different? Also, I do not buy into "Nolvadex reduces gains theory."

If you do a search for user name: Swale, you will find a general recommendation for use of Arimidex at various doses of test.

In my limited experience, I've noticed Nolva slows down the gains a little bit. Maybe projection/imagination on my part? It's possible that I could be scrutinizing closely and maybe looking for a kind of inverse placebo effect. Who knows?

In terms of reducing water retention. YES, it helps. I've noticed some guys are more prone to the effects of supraphysiological levels of estrogen (and they need not be 145 lbs. pencil-necks) than others, however. Again, search for posts by Swale and you should uncover a wealth of info.

singmanr

[rtlltj]

I did 500mg test enanthate per week and I started taking 10mg nolva ed for the bloat. bloat wasn't that bad but it got rid of most of the rapid heart rate feeling. pretty effective imo and no gyno symptoms either.

[patsfan]

It can help with the bloat yes and BP. Armi is a much better choice however because it doesnt surpress igf-1.

[MaxRep]

Originally Posted by Millineum Man

Guys, does Nolvadex reduce water retention? I know Arimidex would be a WHOLE lot better for this. But I only plan on using 500mgs of Test Enanthate a week and Arimidex might be considered overkill for such a moderate amount. I want to stay dry throughout the cycle. Would Nolvadex@20mgs ED be enough to keep the water down?? Would add something? Or use something different? Also, I do not buy into "Nolvadex reduces gains theory."

I'm not sure why you think arimidex would be a WHOLE lot better? Or would be overkill... as it's effects are dosage dependent.

If you're thinking of what Patsfan is referring to; real world bodybuilding results don't seem to indicate much, if any, suppression of IGF, at least not to the point where any difference is noted. Probably because the 10-20mg/day usually used by BB's, isn't enough to cause suppression in healthy males. Even in sick, cancer ridden females, many studies show conflicting results and it's not something that even affects everyone. It also doesn't take into account the increases of IGF due to exogenous Test and other anabolics. There's never been a study done to determine if arimidex increases IGF in the presence of exogenously administered AAS. It is very doubtful that would occur due to the IGF axis negative feedback loop.

Does nolva reduce water retention?... indirectly. What nolva does is bind with the estrogen receptor (ER). If the estrogen molecule doesn't have a receptor to bind with, because the nolva has gotten there first, then there's no way for estrogen to exert it's effects.

However, estrogen is also anabolic and has many positive effects on the body. To take estrogen blockers or aromatase inhibitors to reduce bloat, is really using the products for the wrong reason.

IMO, if a person has to be such a pretty boy that they can't handle a little bloat, they're not much of a bodybuilder. I don't know a single competitive bodybuilder at even the lowest level, who's too concerned with a little off season water retention.

Good luck,
MaxRep

[macattack]

I get retention in my joints which is nothing more then uncomfortable so i take a dieretic maybe 2 times a week at the most and they dry me out if i get BIG BLOAT in my legs and feet i'll hit the nolva 50mg a few times a week but all it really mean is i'm doing to much test or eating to much salt.

[macattack]

IMO, if a person has to be such a pretty boy that they can't handle a little bloat, they're not much of a bodybuilder. I don't know a single competitive bodybuilder at even the lowest level, who's too concerned with a little off season water retention.



Yep theres always going to be some sort of discomfort get used to it last time my sister saw me she says GOD YOUR FACE IS FAT i had just finished a hard cycle and was close to 300 pounds and having a hard time breathing LOL

[cathex]

Originally Posted by MaxRep

I'm not sure why you think arimidex would be a WHOLE lot better? Or would be overkill... as it's effects are dosage dependent.

If you're thinking of what Patsfan is referring to; real world bodybuilding results don't seem to indicate enough, if any, suppression of IGF, at least not to the point where any difference is noted. Probably because the 10-20mg/day usually used by BB's, isn't enough to cause suppression in healthy males. Even in sick, cancer ridden females, many studies show conflicting results and it's not something that even affects everyone. It also doesn't take into account the increases of IGF due to exogenous Test and other anabolics. There's never been a study done to determine if arimidex increases IGF in the presence of exogenously administered AAS. It is very doubtful that would occur due to the IGF axis negative feedback loop.

Does nolva reduce water retention?... indirectly. What nolva does is bind with the estrogen receptor (ER). If the estrogen molecule doesn't have a receptor to bind with, because the nolva has gotten there first, then there's no way for estrogen to exert it's effects.

However, estrogen is also anabolic and has many positive effects on the body. To take estrogen blockers or aromatase inhibitors to reduce bloat, is really using the products for the wrong reason.

IMO, if a person has to be such a pretty boy that they can't handle a little bloat, they're not much of a bodybuilder. I don't know a single competitive bodybuilder at even the lowest level, who's too concerned with a little off season water retention.

Good luck,
MaxRep

Further to MaxRep's comments above, I personally don't see any point in taking AAS along with too much anti e to counter their potency, you may as well cut straight to the chase and take non-aromatizing AAS and save some money.

[graybass]

Max, you are a patient man. Thanks for taking the time to be informative.
We should always heip the young guys!!

[Millineum Man]

IMO, if a person has to be such a pretty boy that they can't handle a little bloat, they're not much of a bodybuilder. I don't know a single competitive bodybuilder at even the lowest level, who's too concerned with a little off season water retention.

Good luck,
MaxRep[/quote]

Max, thanks for replying to my thread. Let me tell you what I'm trying to do. I'm not on a competitive level by any means. I just finished dieting. Now, I'm 30 years old, 6'3" 225lbs and 9% bodyfat. My goal is to reach 235lbs and 8% bodyfat when the cycle is done. I'm not looking to gain freakish size just an aesthetically looking physique, nothing special. I wish I could afford Primo & Anavar because that would coincide with what I'm after, but finances dictate. I'm stuck with Test Enanthate, Winstrol, Nolvadex & Arimidex to make this happen. What do you think??

[MaxRep]

I'm stuck with Test Enanthate, Winstrol, Nolvadex & Arimidex to make this happen. What do you think??[/quote]


As a generality:
I think that a little water retention and/or acne/higher BP/cholesterol, etc., when on a cycle... is the cost of admission. If a person doesn't want to pay that price, then don't play the game.

MM, for you specifically, considering your height, gaining another 10 pounds should be very doable. To do that however is going to require an increase in calories. And it's difficult to increase calories exactly enough to gain the wanted muscle without also gaining a little fat. What usually happens is people in your situation either don't eat enough additional calories to gain the 10 pounds and think the steroids will make up the difference... or they eat a little too much and gain the muscle but also gain some fat.

IMO, it is very easy to take off a little fat. So eat enough to gain the maximum muscle possible, which means you'll also gain a little fat, and then out of your 12 week cycle, use the last 4 weeks to diet off the little fat you gained.

It's a lot like the trajectory of a rifle bullet. Which some may not know is an arc. At the mid way point, the bullet would not strike the target but does do so at the end. Like a bullet going toward a target, to a bodybuilder it matters not where you're at during the cycle, it matters where you're at when you reach the end. At that point, have you met your goal... whatever it may be?

MM, as far as your cycle, 500mg/Test plus winstrol (I'm not sure when or how much you're planning) is probably enough considering your goals are fairly modest. The addition of Nolva or Arimidex around week 3, in a low dosage for the prevention of gyno would be a good idea. Presumably you also have products on hand for pct.

Good luck,
MaxRep

P.S. GrayB, I have to compliment you as well. Many times I've read your posts and thought it very nice of you to explain something so well. Also things like your commentary on Tren E as you were using it was excellent. Thank you

[moralanimal]

Originally Posted by MaxRep

It's a lot like the trajectory of a rifle bullet. Which some may not know is an arc. At the mid way point, the bullet would not strike the target but does do so at the end. Like a bullet going toward a target, to a bodybuilder it matters not where you're at during the cycle, it matters where you're at when you reach the end. At that point, have you met your goal... whatever it may be?
)

WOW- I love it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[lolokoss]

Ok, there's nothing wrong with wanting to look like a pretty boy......

[georgie24]

alot of good info here. i agree that these internet myths can be quite bothersome

[Millineum Man]

Thanks for replying, Max!! I've decided to go with Test Enanthate@500mgs for 12 weeks starting the Arimidex@.5mgs every 3rd day at week 3. Then, run a combo of Winstrol@50mgs & Anavar@30mgs ED for weeks 13-16 to drop some bodyfat before going into PCT. I'll have some Prop on hand if my sex drive tails off before starting PCT. Sounds alright?