No, there appears that you may have misinterpreted slightly. It is exactly the ester that causes the reaction. If you look at the chemicals involved in the esterfication process as listed above. You can note that they are completely different that the enanthate or cypionate esters. While the cypionate and enanthate esters are 9 and 8 bonds in size, the propionate is only one or two. They are all testosterone based so exactly nothing else is different. It is the chemical involved in creating the carbon ester for the quick acting propionate that disagrees with the body. As discussed above, the olanthic acid available in grapeseed oil, or simply adding oleanthic acid is only and ADDITIVE to the solution. While if you get lucky enough to get testosterone propionate that uses grapeseed oil as the primary solvent, it still has not modified the carbon structure of the offending propionate ester at all. The oleanthic additive to propionate apparently just happens to react in a way that "cusions" the effect of the Painful ester. The actual component of testosterone propionate can not be created using Oenanthylic acid; or Oenanthic acid. It still, is what is is. If you also note above you can see that enanthate carbon esters can be created with oleanthic products. Cypionate ( which I have always found the "cleanest feeling" and most painless can not. So go figure. This concludes that each of these particular esters require certain and very particular chemical structures to be created. Some of them happen to have a harsher reaction with the body.
NOW FOR ANOTHER, YET RELATED, RANT......
An interesting side note in my latest research... I have found that the less water soluble a compound, the more it actually REQUIRES oil to deliver it fully and efficiently. For example, I was unaware that EVEN when using oil base compounds orally, it is best to take a shot of oil with them as it facilitates the absorbtion. It apparently has a very significant impact on bioavailability. It also emphasises and interesting point regarding, the liver, cholesterol, and quantities and types of fats in the blood, should certainly be considered a very important factor in bioavailability of compounds circulating in the body.!! This also now begs the question, Just how efficient is it to try to infuse high doses of testosterone into a given compound?? It is common knowledge that a solution with "crash" when it becomes supersaturated in the making. Perhaps in the bottle, when exposed to a molecule thus causing preciptation to occur, or worse, in your ass. Ever do the sugar sickle experiment in grade school.?? Then you would have noted that once a supersaturated solution begins the process of precipitating out the components that are diluted in such, the process does not stop until every little bit has changed back to the desired physical state in givin conditions. In this case we are dealing with a return to state of a solid. So imagine if you are pinning an
absurd atttemp at a stable compound, like "
test 400" or "
test 600". What you really may get is a supersaturated, or even partially saturated solution precipitating out, or "crashing" in you ass!! AND EVEN if the solution does not begin to fall apart and crystallize on contact with your muscle tissue by means of the fact the the (secondary solvents) Benzyl Alcohol, and/or Benzyl Benzoate are added in high enough in concentration to hold it in liquid form, HOW LONG DO YOU THINK THIS WILL LAST?? The benzyl alcohol is going to uptake to your blood steam almost immediately. The BB should technically be somewhat attached to the testosterone compound ( if prepared properly), but it is all uptaked at 2-3 days tops. And finally the primary solvent, the oil, will also absorb extremely quickly. Although the benzoate provides as a solvent, its primary purpose is to bond with the testosterone molecule and slow the release of the testosterone holding it in the form of a deposit, or "depot" in the muscle, providing for a continous and slowed down 2 day release period hence helping to stabilize the bodys reactions. But is this action even really helping in
this situation?? Or perhaps here it is only assisting the testosterone component to linger while the oil and alcohol are quickly absorbed leaving behing only testosterone solids that are not ideal for muscular uptake. What complications could arrise from this? Other than the fact that you now have the majority, if not half of the testosterone "stuck" in your muscle in a way that is difficult to make use of?? Perhaps the testosterone could even begin to metabolize through maturity to
DHT, or E2 depending on the particular receptors located in the body part you have injected in, via circulating enzyme exposure?? Or even more logical, it may even sit there long enough to be deactivated and excreted...
I know that on the surface the first thought of many are, "yea, gimmie that
test 400, it has to kick ass!!" But pharmaceutical companies manufacture cypionate at a rate of only 100 to 200 mgs per ML for a reason. The point is, JUST WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU GETTING FROM A
UGL!!!!!
This post beings to light a new set of questions in my mind:
(1) just how critical are the proportions of chemicals in a testosterone solution?
(2) is there a difference in the delivery effectiveness based on the type of oil used? Would it be better to use an oil that is more foreign to the human body to help control and facilitate an efficient absorbsion? Do particular oils work better for particular people/cultures? For example, if you have ever used testosterone cypionate by BM Pharma (made in India), you will notice that it is made with some kind of oil you have never even heard of. Maybe that causes that particular brand of testosterone to absorb differently in their culture as their bodies are already familiar with it due to regular cultural use??
(3) and ffinally I am now wondering just exactly what is the correct process for manufacturing a testosterone compound? Should it be heated for reasons other than sterility? At what temp and for how long? If you heat it too fast or place it too closley to a burner, are you scorching and damaging the actual testosterone component? And better, how do you properly combine these ingredients? Is it different for different oils. Should you stir it gently or shake it violently, and for how long. I recently noted that it can take as long as 12 + hours of a mixing action to combine some different chemicals of projects not related to this exact subject. Just how much of a catalystic action is the BA or BB contributing when considering creating this new compound? Should a testosterone solution be stirred over a certain heat for a minimum of 2 hours at a given temp to effectively get the BB to combine with the testosterone effectively. The various steroids out there are obviously going to have different chemical structures and different elements bonded in different locations on the particar carbon chair in question. How hard are these bonds to break if required? Melting points are obviously an indicator, however, I am sure there is more to it than that. Are there any compounding pharmacists out here that can help with this??
Enough! I am spent...
Quote:
Originally Posted by zkt  So if we are agreed that the esterification has little or nothing with the issue then the other ingediants in the injectable compound must responsible. As BBC3 pointed out the polar-lipid solubility of the ester is determined by the complexity of the esterification side chain. How are the varoius lipid solvents (oils) related as to solubility and even price? Are the more painful oils traditionally or for some other reason, used more in proprionate and ocassionally in enanthanate?
The only other ingrediant is benzoic acid. Why would more or less be used ?
Its the oil and its the imune system.
Yes? |
Esters and pain 
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