First cycle..

[gerard1]

First cycle in 10 years...
For someone who is 180, 5'9, trying to cut fat (dieting too), and to gain a few pounds of lean mass, while training in the gym but mainly training for athletics competitions (cycling), would a 8 or 9 week cycle of:
200mg Test Enan. and 150mg EQ per week be OK? Any use in adding Winny in there for the last few weeks? Or better off not to bother with the winny for now? Planning on starting in the first 2 weeks of the new year, so trying to finally decide what to use.
Clomid and Nolva on hand, but would any PCT really be necessary at these amounts?

[skywalk]

wow gerard1 thats a very un-informed post. Please read all the threads as all your questions have already been answered in other posts. To start you off on the right foot, 200 test per week is barely over what you produce naturally, and all you'll be doing is shutting yourself down in my opinion. You didnt mention any use of femara or arimidex during cycle and you should. PCT is a must with any cycle and I am sad that you actually had to ask that question. Please go read as many posts as you can and research for your answers.

Skywalk

[gerard1]

Actually, I've been reading this board for months now. I've also read very conflicting posts by people. Some say they did their very first cycle being on just one amp of sust per week and gained 20 pounds.
I've also read many posts contradicting what you just said about natural test production. I don't believe we naturally produce 200mg of test per week. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.
As well, I have read both views on PCT. Some say on a low dose of test it isn't necesarrily required, some say it is...
So I was looking for further comments on all the above.
Keep in mind, I am not on my 25th cycle, I do not weigh 250. I likely do not have the same requirements as you do.
That said, thanks for taking the time to reply!

PS. After a quick internet search, it looks like the typical male produces about 50-60mg of test per week. Again, someone please correct me if I am wrong...

[skywalk]

Originally Posted by gerard1

Actually, I've been reading this board for months now. I've also read very conflicting posts by people. Some say they did their very first cycle being on just one amp of sust per week and gained 20 pounds.
I've also read many posts contradicting what you just said about natural test production. I don't believe we naturally produce 200mg of test per week. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.
As well, I have read both views on PCT. Some say on a low dose of test it isn't necesarrily required, some say it is...
So I was looking for further comments on all the above.
Keep in mind, I am not on my 25th cycle, I do not weigh 250. I likely do not have the same requirements as you do.
That said, thanks for taking the time to reply!

PS. After a quick internet search, it looks like the typical male produces about 50-60mg of test per week. Again, someone please correct me if I am wrong...

Gerard1,

sup bro,

let me try to clarify what I was trying to say
200mg per week is more than what we produce per week, but it's still pretty low. No doubt some people still make gains on this amount, you will not know till you try it. TYPICALLY, 400-500mg/week is awesome for a beginner. Remember, you want to be in the optimal range for growth..not too little, not too much. if you're going to do a cycle, then our aim is to cover all aspects of your cycle before you begin including nutrition and training.

OK so on any dose of exogenous test you should do post cycle hormone recovery for at least 3 weeks, even if you do a 2-week short cycle. Exogenous test will shut down your natural production in a few days. Lets get it out of your system that low doses of test do not require PCT because this is just not true.My philosophy is be safe rather than sorry.

8-9 weeks of EQ is arguably a little short for EQ. May I ask why you chose EQ for your first cycle? You'd probably make great gains on pure test alone. Many advocate EQ for no shorter than 12 weeks and I am personally against cycles that long. I only do 2 week cycles with prop and tren, and I typically gain 10lbs and keep 7-8lbs per 2 weeker. (this is after a 3 week PCT and 2 week layoff, totally drug free)

Contrast this with gaining 25lbs in 12 weeks, taking 12 weeks off and keeping maybe 15-20lbs of muscle (IF you're lucky!) Also, with short cycles you recover faster, no need to mess with HCG...outcome: faster, keepable gains in the long run.

If you are all set in doing a 9weeker, get femara and I suggest 2.5mg EOD during cycle.
Post cycle I would continue femara for only one week with 40mg nolvadex ED, then switch to 20mg nolva only for 2 more weeks, then take another 9 weeks off totally drug free. (thats 12 weeks off AAS if you count the 3 week PCT)

Now, why dont you outline your diet, macro breakdown, training routine, daily caloric intake from a week before the cycle to your 9th week after cycle, and tell us what esters you will be using.
Also, is this a cutting cycle or bulking cycle? You cant do both...nutritional and training requirements are very different for both.

As to your question about winny, I'd save it for a future cycle with tren. For now, stick to the basics...you'll see awesome gains!

[gerard1]

OK, I too need to be more clear about my goals here!

Think Carl Lewis. Think Ben Johnson. Think Lance Armstrong.

I'm not a bodybuilder, I compete in athletics. I need a high power to weight ratio, a monster lactate threshold number, a big VO2 max number, and low body fat (useless weight...).

My goals are to shed some fat (I'm guessing I'm around 15%), and at the same time, gain maybe 5 pounds of muscle. I've been training for a long time, and now am looking for a little extra boost to help.

Gaining 15-20 pounds of muscle would -not- be a good thing for me!

5 pounds of muscle along with losing 5 pounds of fat would be wonderful.

[skywalk]

Hi,

So you're doing a cutting cycle. I'd say scrap the EQ (it tends to increase appetite a lot) and go with test, tren and winny for a 6weeker. Keeping in mind estrogen promotes fat storage, you have all the more reason to have a really solid anti-E regimen like the one I outlined for you, ESPECIALLY when taking test.

Your training should inclide at least 30-60mins of cardio ED and you should be taking lots of protein, spaced out in 5-6 meals per day. You want to keep as much muscle as you can, while losing fat. Avoid saturated fats, increase your omega 3's, like flax and fish oils, and get some good protein powders with a nice blend of protein isolates and concentrates.

May I ask why you didnt mention/consider an ECA stack cycled with some clenbuterol? you may be interested in doing what I just completed, and that is a 2 week prop/tren cycle with 2 weeks of clen immediately after (during PCT,) alternating with 2 weeks of ECA. The fat will drip off with proper cardio and diet.

I would be very interested in seeing your final cycle outline, WITH your nutritional macros.

You may also like to incorporate a couple more cable and isolation exercises instead of the compound exercises.

[gerard1]

Thanks.
I have already been using clen, and I feel the sides, but not sure it has helped that much with weight loss, but I do plan to use it as well during the cycle. I'm currently doing close to 9 hours a week cardio (off season amount)and in the gym 3 times a week.
You mentioned a 6 week cycle. But isn't that considered too short for a cycle with test in it? I thought when using test you were supposed to go 8+ weeks since it takes time to kick in?
OK, one reason I mentioned EQ is because I may have a vial coming to me that is a blend of test e and EQ (200/150).
But I also have straight test e if that would be better, and can get winny 25mg oral.
So, lets assume, hypothetically of course, that for a cycle, I would have access to the test e/EQ blend, straight test e, sust 250, winny oral, and clen.
And Nolva and Clomid on hand.

So what would you use?

[skywalk]

Originally Posted by gerard1

Thanks.
I have already been using clen, and I feel the sides, but not sure it has helped that much with weight loss, but I do plan to use it as well during the cycle. I'm currently doing close to 9 hours a week cardio (off season amount)and in the gym 3 times a week.
You mentioned a 6 week cycle. But isn't that considered too short for a cycle with test in it? I thought when using test you were supposed to go 8+ weeks since it takes time to kick in?
OK, one reason I mentioned EQ is because I may have a vial coming to me that is a blend of test e and EQ (200/150).
But I also have straight test e if that would be better, and can get winny 25mg oral.
So, lets assume, hypothetically of course, that for a cycle, I would have access to the test e/EQ blend, straight test e, sust 250, winny oral, and clen.
And Nolva and Clomid on hand.

So what would you use?

bro,

6 weeks is fine if you're using short esters like test prop.

well...theres the cycle I recommend and they cycle that you're probably gonna do regardless. I hate critiquing a cycle with "I have X and Y compounds and i'm limited to using only these AAS"
My personal preference is a cutter with tren prop winny. BUT, seeing as you only have test E and EQ to work with here are my suggestions:

1) do a 12 weeker since you're using EQ and you want the most out of taking that substance. ( I recommend against doing this but you seem set on it)
2) do monday and thursday injections to keep your test and eq levels relatively stable (thats 400mg test and 300mg EQ if your dosages are correct)
note that because enan is a larger, longer ester, you will not be getting 400mg of test but closer to 360 ish.....but I digress.
3) test enan should kick in by around week 2 or 3.
4) have enough femara to last you throughout the entire cycle at 2.5mg EOD, and for the first week of PCT. *THIS is perhaps the most important aspect of your cycle! dont overlook this!!*
5) have enough nolvadex for PCT and some extra in case 2.5mg of femara is not enough for you. very hard to predict how genetically predisposed to gyno you are seeing as this is your first cycle...we have nothing to compare you to.
6) Get rid of the "I have nolvadex on hand in case I show gyno"
This is a redundant mentality that waits till you manifest symptoms of gyno before treating it...why wait till you do damage to your body before taking measures to counter it? Remember that in addition to the itchy nips, theres a whole bunch of other stuff going on in your body caused by excess estrogen that you cant feel or see much of, like renal distress, accelerated fat storage, hypertension, prostate problems, just to name a few. Estrogen can never be eliminated no matter how much femara or arimidex you take so dont be a fool in thinking you can stinge on the anti aromatases.

Some will argue that these dosages are a little low but until you try it, you will not know how you will respond to it.

You never did outline your diet macros.