First Cycle question...

[hawgnuts]

Hey yall...simple question regarding cycle 2 (sust. + deca)...I guess this would be a guestamation type question, but what are the chances (or percentages roughly) of getting the side effects of deca??(although I know it varies from individual to individual)...and one other question..being somewhat new at this (and I have done my homework for a couple of months now)...which would you more recommend..cycle 1 or 2?...I would like to keep as much of my gains as possible...(I was leaning towards test. cyp + deca. following the cycle 2 protocol with clomid on hand for PCT)

As for me: 29 YOA...5'9"...155lbs...been working out regularly (4-5x a wk for the past 8-9 yrs)...Ive done the whole dieting/protein shakes,bars,etc./calorie uping...my weight still fluctuates a few lbs. plus or minus and I figure for as much money as I have dumped on the 'natural' way...I would save myself money in the long run...I am looking to put on roughly 15 -20 lbs..that of which will not give me the whole "blown up" look...for I would like to stay as lean as possible, as I have incorporated swimming in for some cardio...any suggestions would be greatly appreciated...tnx again..

[redbirds]

I would try to gain about 15- 20 pounds naturaly before you try a cycle. If you weigh 155 it would be pretty easy to gain that weight naturaly. Work on your diet and then see where that gets you. You are probably not eatting enough. But if you decide not to take my advice I would go with 500mg of Sustanon a week for 10 weeks.

[dennis]

deca and sust together for 2nd cycle would be a good bulker cycle.I agree with above post too..you are not eating enough and might be doing too much cardio.What to be carefull with the deca is 1.have adex on hand for during cycle and use it.2.use more sust than deca.3.stop the deca 1 week before the sust.4.use nolva for pct not clomid and expect 4-6 weeks of that.5. good idea to incorporate some hcg as well.You should be able to pack on some serious weight with this if you eat correctly and do not over train or over do your cardio..hell i would not even do cardio during that cycle if i were you other than maybe 10 minutes bike or tread before you lift just to warm up a bit...

[hawgnuts]

Yeah, after reading phreezers first cycle forum...I had intended on using more test than deca..and following the protocol to a "T"...Unfortuneatly my work schedule does not really allow me to eat like I would need to....I try to eat rougly every hour and a half to two hours but sometimes my work doesn't allow me to...seeing patients and all...not to mention the cost of all the supplements and all...over time anyway..it would be cheaper go the cycle route... I train roughly an hour an evening mon-thrs or fri at like 7-8 p.m...and I have nearly cut out my cardio for the past 6 months...just recently started swimming like 2 weeks ago for maybe 20 -30 mins...

[dennis]

you cannot grow if you do not eat.You need to find ways to consume atleast 4,000 calories per day.Supps can be expensive..use a product called cyto gainer by cyto sport mixed with cyto sport muscle milk...drink 3 times per day.you could take one or two to work with you and mix them there.You can mix one that equals 700-800 cals and has 50 plus grams protien.Thats 2400 of your cals needed righ there plus 150 grams of protien and cheaper than buying meals.,incorpporate that with breakfast lunch and dinner..then eat right before you fall into bed oatmeal or cottage cheese..you will gain weight.I am talking about while on and off cycle..steroids will not help you if you are not consuming high% of cals and protien inc.w/ high entensity work outs.

[hawgnuts]

Thanks Dennis..I appreciate your suggestions..so you think I should not even try cycling (either 1 or 2)???...Would it benefit me at all??...Where I see patients frequently throughout the day it's just hard to consume the calories I need...I do what I can when I can...What should I expect from doing either one of the cycles??(as far as weight/strength gains etc..)..and if I incorporated the shakes you mentioned along with a cycle??? My metabolism is really high or something b/c for about 4 months I did do muscle milk (small shakes, 3 a day inb/t meals) then more protein before bed...+ 1-2 cans of tuna a day.. NO cardio...I know I was getting the cal's..just not the weight...

[dennis]

I like the deca/sust mix personally.The more you can eat the more you can gain is what i am trying to say.You should be able to stop on the way to and from work or maybe lunch and get even fast food..mcdonalds has meals with over 1,000 cals in them...you just have to make it work..the 3 shakes per day will really get you close to your goal quicker.lets say you did 10 weeks sust /deca and just ate half ass..you might gain 10-15 lbs...if you ate really good you might get 20 plus pounds...I would like to see some other senoirs chime in on this one as well..i am just 1 opinion...dennis

[HDH]

There's not much more to say. It just depends on how bad you want it. If you don't eat you don't gain. Period

HDH

[ForemanRules]

Originally Posted by hawgnuts

Hey yall...simple question regarding cycle 2 (sust. + deca)...I guess this would be a guestamation type question, but what are the chances (or percentages roughly) of getting the side effects of deca??(although I know it varies from individual to individual)...and one other question..being somewhat new at this (and I have done my homework for a couple of months now)...which would you more recommend..cycle 1 or 2?...I would like to keep as much of my gains as possible...(I was leaning towards test. cyp + deca. following the cycle 2 protocol with clomid on hand for PCT)

As for me: 29 YOA...5'9"...155lbs...been working out regularly (4-5x a wk for the past 8-9 yrs)...Ive done the whole dieting/protein shakes,bars,etc./calorie uping...my weight still fluctuates a few lbs. plus or minus and I figure for as much money as I have dumped on the 'natural' way...I would save myself money in the long run...I am looking to put on roughly 15 -20 lbs..that of which will not give me the whole "blown up" look...for I would like to stay as lean as possible, as I have incorporated swimming in for some cardio...any suggestions would be greatly appreciated...tnx again..

At 5'9'' and only 155 it is clear you have no business using steroids. You need to learn how to train and eat. Post your exact training program and diet in detail.

[hawgnuts]

Sorry I couldnt get back sooner...
My training schedule is:

Mon-chest and tris
Tues-back and bis
Wed-shoulders
Thurs-legs...(NO squats or dead lifts..for I have a condition in my lower back called facet tropism..basically the joints in my lower lumbar spine are not lined up correctly)...heavy loading aggravates the condition...(I should know for I am a chiropractor)..legs consist of different machine exercises...
Weekends-off

*Also I have recently incorporated swimming in on wed's and thur's (20-30 mins)
*All my training days last about an hour or more

And I have been alternating my reps and weight...to keep the body guessing...however, I have been going significantly heavier the past 6-8 months to try and gain some weight...

Diet: 7 a.m.- either 3 or 4 hardboiled egg whites or oatmeal
9 - can of tuna + small protein shake (muscle milk)
11- another small shake (muscle milk)
12 p.m.-usually some type of grilled chicken (one or two)
2- whatever I can get my hands on..
4- another small protein shake
6- some form of chicken, ribs, meat, etc...veges
9- another shake or some oatmeal

Any more suggestions would be greatly appreciated...thanks for being honest about this..."for honest is the best criticism"...I know I am new at this plus you know your stuff....Like I said before too, I am looking to pack on about 15-20 lbs of muscle, not fat....Dont want the 'bloated look'....thanx again...

[dennis]

That sucks about no squats..that is the #1 exercise in my book that will help you gain size/wieght.Can you do a box squat ? Also about the muscle milk..it is good stuff but get some cyto gainer from cyto sport..get the choclate flavor ...you need to mix it with the muscle milk choc.mix 2 cups milk 1 scoop muscle milk and 2 scoops cyto gainer...drink 3 per day.43 grams protien per each drink plus over 800 cals.per drink.You have no idea how important heavy leg day is for gaining mass all over bro.

[hawgnuts]

As far as box squats go, how much weight should I use??reps??sets??I will definitely try them...thanks for the suggestions...and I will also try the cyto weight gain too??Are you talking about both being in the powder form??(for the muscle milk I was using was in the pre-made shakes)...definitely cant do heavy dead lifting, for that especially flares it up...I was NOT diagnosed until I was like 24 and I did lots of heavy squatting and dead lifting during high school...it about killed me...just thought it went along with the heavier weight....but as far as my diet goes throughout the day, do you think thats OK??I will definitely try implementing in the box squats..I will also implement in the cyto gainer too??You still believe I should hold off on the deca+sust. cycle??after hearing a little more about my liftestyle??thanx

[dennis]

Originally Posted by hawgnuts

As far as box squats go, how much weight should I use??reps??sets??I will definitely try them...thanks for the suggestions...and I will also try the cyto weight gain too??Are you talking about both being in the powder form??(for the muscle milk I was using was in the pre-made shakes)...definitely cant do heavy dead lifting, for that especially flares it up...I was NOT diagnosed until I was like 24 and I did lots of heavy squatting and dead lifting during high school...it about killed me...just thought it went along with the heavier weight....but as far as my diet goes throughout the day, do you think thats OK??I will definitely try implementing in the box squats..I will also implement in the cyto gainer too??You still believe I should hold off on the deca+sust. cycle??after hearing a little more about my liftestyle??thanx

as far as the box squats you need to go as heavy as the back will take..always use spotter...do 1-2 warm up sets light then gradually increase weight up to 5 sets.by set 5 you should only get 2-4 reps.Again though your back will tell you when enough is enough.Yes..use the powder forms of muscle milk..you will like it much better.The diet looks good..you just gotta learn to pound the calories down..at your age and lifting experience..if it were me i would do the sust/deca 10 week cycle.You have to make your own decision..it is your body..you know it better than anyone..

[TheBeat]

The way that I see it is that at 5'9" and 155lbs you should try to gain it naturally. If you use a cycle, no matter what one, chances are that you will lose almost all of it given that after 9 years of training you are 155 - there is something in the equation that is not matching up. Their is a chance that it is not diet and exercise, or lifestyle for that matter related as to your trouble gaining naturally, it could be genetic or hormonal which in any case you will lose most of your gains when you go back to normal - if normal isn't getting you there after 9 years, then it will not keep you there after a cycle.

Other than that - go with the Cyp/Deca

[Big_paul]

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

At 5'9'' and only 155 it is clear you have no business using steroids. You need to learn how to train and eat. Post your exact training program and diet in detail.

i agree. At 5'9" and 155lbs something is wrong. diet and training are your foundation, and nothing happens without a good understanding of both

[deathgrip07]

I looked at your posts... and it looks like to me that you need to eat more. A lot more. I would at least try to incorporate some type of squat into your routine, go light if you have to for a while. I understand about the condition holding you back, as I have a pretty nasty neck problem. 155 at 5'9" is a little out of whack after training for 8 or 9 years. In comparison, I have been lifting for about ten years now and am 5'8" (barely) and 180-182 on any given day, I'm a small guy, but with some serious lifting and eating have been able to build myself up. You'd be surprised what a little tweaking of your diet and training can unleash.

[hawgnuts]

After lifting all those years, my routines have changed drastically too though...didnt always lift heavy...I dont mean that I have been trying to gain the lbs. over the past eight to nine years..I used to do lots of cardio and I did change my routine several times...from heavy weight low reps to light weight high reps....I used to run 4 miles a day 3x a week for like the longest time too...the most I have ever weighed was in high school and I peeked out at like 174lbs....I completely cut out the cardio over the past 7 or eight months and it seems as though I can hardly gain anything....sorry for the mix up about the training...I should have mentioned that I have completely changed my routines several times too....and I do understand that diet and exercise are pretty much dependent on each other...that is my field too...genetics do play a part in it too....thanx for the info on this guys...still kind of leaning towards cycling....and I will also incorporate the cyto gain too..thanx all for the info...anything else would be greatly appreciated..

[Orangejuicer]

One trick my wrestling coach always liked was to get cals in through drinks. Eat a high carb meal and drinka meal replacement shake with it. But be careful when you have a lot of carbs and protein together, it can cause lethargy. I would definately also suggest a weightgainer. Buy by price, calories are calories, you can usually get the 4 pound tubs for like 12 bucks. Double up servings on everything. I've never done a cycle, but weightgain without steroids is doable for anyone. Just change everything a thing at a time. Try drinking more water, switch up your excercise routine, try upping cals.Don't be afraid to gain fat, the heavier you are the easier it is to gain more weight. Good luck.

[dennis]

One more thing i forgot to add..the cyto gainer 6.5 lbs cost about 60.00 in gnc and places like that..the muscle milk 2.5 lbs cost about 35.00 bucks there too.I go on ebay...just do a search and you will find the 6.5 lb gainer for 20.00-27.00 bucks and the muscle milk for 17.00 - 24.00..this will save you a ton !