HCG help!

[shm772]

what is the best way to administer hcg? IM or Sub Q ? also do i need a differently calibrated needle ? I.U.? never did hcg and need help. I only have 22 gauge 3 ml pins. i can get others . i just need the run down on proper procedure and do ml convert to IU?

[solo47]

1. Either, so why not go sub-q?

2. You need insulin needle-syringe combos, i.e., slin pins. Usually .5 cc/ml (50 units) and 27 to 30 gauge.

Solo

[nd1024]

Originally Posted by shm772

what is the best way to administer hcg? IM or Sub Q ? also do i need a differently calibrated needle ? I.U.? never did hcg and need help. I only have 22 gauge 3 ml pins. i can get others . i just need the run down on proper procedure and do ml convert to IU?

Sub-q is best for HCG in my opinion. And as solo said, 27 to 30 gauge slin pins, 5/8 inch long. HCG is for recovery from long cycles, like 15 weeks or more. I am not saying that it will hurt you to use it for short cycles, just not necassary. I have only had to use hcg on 2 cycles. One cycle I did for almost 17 weeks of test, deca, tren on the first 8 weeks, and capped it off with winny.. My boys were the size of raisons at about week 15.. After 3 weeks of HCG therapy, they were back to normal, about the size of volkswagons.

[LifeSize]

Originally Posted by nd1024

Sub-q is best for HCG in my opinion. And as solo said, 27 to 30 gauge slin pins, 5/8 inch long. HCG is for recovery from long cycles, like 15 weeks or more. I am not saying that it will hurt you to use it for short cycles, just not necassary. I have only had to use hcg on 2 cycles. One cycle I did for almost 17 weeks of test, deca, tren on the first 8 weeks, and capped it off with winny.. My boys were the size of raisons at about week 15.. After 3 weeks of HCG therapy, they were back to normal, about the size of volkswagons.

You're going to have to excuse me. Around here the general thoughts are, HCG makes your balls full, keeps your HPTA responsive, makes you a little sensitive around the pecker stand, and its one of the key factors in a rapid and successful PCT which equals retaining the most gains possible..

So for a 12 week test prop/ tren ace cycle you wouldn't run HCG? Just Nolva 10mg ed, and then do a 40mg-10mg taper of Nolva post injections?? I'm still trying to figure out what you do..how you do it..and why you do it...

[shm772]

I'm going to do a 12 week sust 250/Equipoise cycle. followed by liquid nolva and liquid clomid for pct. 5 months ago i got of a 10 week cycle of test c only. pct was nolvadex by balklan pharm . some sexual dysfunction for a bit. no libido and no stiffy. that passed but now bacne and chestne. so before i do another cycle i want to get my pct in order.

[LifeSize]

Originally Posted by shm772

I'm going to do a 12 week sust 250/Equipoise cycle. followed by liquid nolva and liquid clomid for pct. 5 months ago i got of a 10 week cycle of test c only. pct was nolvadex by balklan pharm . some sexual dysfunction for a bit. no libido and no stiffy. that passed but now bacne and chestne. so before i do another cycle i want to get my pct in order.

How much Sus a week? I assume two 250's right (500mg total)? How much EQ (400-600)?

ag-guys.com is a good source for ancillaries, they are a sponsor too!

Arimidex @ .25mg ED or .5mg EOD keeps bloat down, keeps gyno at bay, and as long as you don't have crazy aromatization should be all you need during your cycle to keep you tight and somewhat dry. Less effect on gains than Nolva. Keep in mind you can run Nolva during your cycle also in case you have a nasty side.

People say Clomid sucks, makes you moody and it's just not as effective at Nolva. Lots run Nolva alone...lately the hot shit is a combination of both to take advantage of the plus's... When you take Nolva with Clomid you don't become a girl on the rag.. :P

Nolva is great.. start at 40-50mg daily, and work your way down by 10mg every week.. so 50/40/30/20/10 or 40/30/20/10/10.. You can do 300mg of Clomid the first day you take Nolva, then switch down to 150mg Clomid for the next week, go tapering down 50mg weekly.. I would only run the clomid the first two weeks of PCT along with my Nolva..

Letrozole can be a life saver if you have severe gyno.

Check out the many threads on PCT..the must haves for me are Nolva and Adex..

Though HCG is beneficial to PCT I don't consider it a part of PCT due to the fact it suppresses you..if you use this run 500iu daily for 10 days starting the day after your last inject..on the day after your last HCG inject (stop your Adex if you ran it) start your Clomid/Nolva...

Sorry in a rush, so it may be a little messy...ill be back if you have more questions..

[nd1024]

Originally Posted by LifeSize

You're going to have to excuse me. Around here the general thoughts are, HCG makes your balls full, keeps your HPTA responsive, makes you a little sensitive around the pecker stand, and its one of the key factors in a rapid and successful PCT which equals retaining the most gains possible..

So for a 12 week test prop/ tren ace cycle you wouldn't run HCG? Just Nolva 10mg ed, and then do a 40mg-10mg taper of Nolva post injections?? I'm still trying to figure out what you do..how you do it..and why you do it...

If your testes are atrophied, then absolutely, I would use HCG. That is what it is used for, bringing the boys back to normal size, and this is done with HCG as it mimicks your leutinizing hormone, which does help you to recover a little faster. But your testes dont usually atrophy durring short cycles, and the use of HCG is not really neccesary as clomid and nolvadex are the mainstream PCT, and will get you back on track just fine. As to what I do and why? I have alot of experience, am on vacation right now, and enjoy giving advice. I put in my profile pretty much all you need to know as to who I am and what I do. I dont do AAS now, havent in over a year. I do strictly peptides, hgh. I have done enough AAS, enough research and personal experience to feel like I can answer some questions with educated and experienced answers. Is that OK? If not, just let me know. Dont want to step on toes, just haviing some fun.

[dennis]

Originally Posted by shm772

I'm going to do a 12 week sust 250/Equipoise cycle. followed by liquid nolva and liquid clomid for pct. 5 months ago i got of a 10 week cycle of test c only. pct was nolvadex by balklan pharm . some sexual dysfunction for a bit. no libido and no stiffy. that passed but now bacne and chestne. so before i do another cycle i want to get my pct in order.

hopefully he means 500 sust and the same for the eq......

[LifeSize]

Originally Posted by nd1024

As to what I do and why? I have alot of experience, am on vacation right now, and enjoy giving advice. I put in my profile pretty much all you need to know as to who I am and what I do. Iy dont do AAS now, havent in over a ear. I do strictly peptides, hgh. I have done enough AAS, enough research and personal experience to feel like I can answer some questions with educated and experienced answers. Is that OK? If not, just let me know. Dont want to step on toes, just haviing some fun.

You my friend are paranoid. I meant why do you manage your PCT in that way, also your advocation of 25mg daily of Nolva during cycle.. We're all here for fun, we all speak hypothetically, we're a bunch of educated liars.

[nd1024]

Originally Posted by LifeSize

You my friend are paranoid. I meant why do you manage your PCT in that way, also your advocation of 25mg daily of Nolva during cycle.. We're all here for fun, we all speak hypothetically, we're a bunch of educated liars.

OK, I hear ya bro. I just got slammed by some youngster on another thread because I asked for stats in regards to his question, and he was offended enough to call me names and what not. So i was a little on gaurd.
25mg durring cycle is basically for prevention of gyno. Its not a for sure thing, but prevention is better than cure. Some guys dont have a problem with gyno and dont have to run nolvadex durring cycle, buyt for thwe ones who are just starting out in their AAS endeavors, and dont know if they are prone to gyno, I always suggest that they run nolva at 25mg a day durring cycle. It may hinder gains very slightly, but it helps to keep the estrogen rebound down to a point that gyno shouldnt become an issue. If you are in fact prone to gyno, you will notice nipples begin to itch, swell, hurt, symptoms of gyno, even while on 25mg a day durring cycle, and if this happens, then you can up the dose of niolvadex to a point were the symptoms subside.
If you run a cycle, especially first time, and dont run nolvadex, and are prone to gyno, then once the symptoms start, then they are alot harder to manage or get under control if you havent been running nolva durring cycle. I have seen guys that ran cycles for first time, didnt run nolvadex and within a month, gyno sets in, and for this one cat I know, it was too late. 500mg a week of test-e, and he got gyno so bad, that he was lactating from the nips and had to have surgery. Kinda puts a damper on your desire to everr want to do AAS after that.
Just my .002
peace

[LifeSize]

Originally Posted by nd1024

OK, I hear ya bro. I just got slammed by some youngster on another thread because I asked for stats in regards to his question, and he was offended enough to call me names and what not. So i was a little on gaurd.
25mg durring cycle is basically for prevention of gyno. Its not a for sure thing, but prevention is better than cure. Some guys dont have a problem with gyno and dont have to run nolvadex durring cycle, buyt for thwe ones who are just starting out in their AAS endeavors, and dont know if they are prone to gyno, I always suggest that they run nolva at 25mg a day durring cycle. It may hinder gains very slightly, but it helps to keep the estrogen rebound down to a point that gyno shouldnt become an issue. If you are in fact prone to gyno, you will notice nipples begin to itch, swell, hurt, symptoms of gyno, even while on 25mg a day durring cycle, and if this happens, then you can up the dose of niolvadex to a point were the symptoms subside.
If you run a cycle, especially first time, and dont run nolvadex, and are prone to gyno, then once the symptoms start, then they are alot harder to manage or get under control if you havent been running nolva durring cycle. I have seen guys that ran cycles for first time, didnt run nolvadex and within a month, gyno sets in, and for this one cat I know, it was too late. 500mg a week of test-e, and he got gyno so bad, that he was lactating from the nips and had to have surgery. Kinda puts a damper on your desire to everr want to do AAS after that.
Just my .002
peace

Why not arimidex for that purpose? I just kind of think that maybe the Nolva wont be as effective come PCT if you've been on it for 3 months..feel me? I don't know shit though.. I was planning to run Adex during cycle, Nolva post..

[stevesez]

I run HCG at 250mg EOD throughout the cycle, I find it helps my recovery from the cycle druing PCT much quicker. I dont use HCG in the PCT stage. A combo of Clomid and Nolv in PCT. Plus I use cortisol reducing supplements which I find helps.

I will be running Arimidex at 0.5mg ED during my Test Prop and Mast cycle. Prov and Nolv had no effect on the bloating I get while on Test. Ive heard great things when it comes to Arimidex

Hope my experience helps in some way

[stevesez]

One more thing, I found that subq HCG injectiosn didnt appear to work as well as IM. Possibly I wasnt doing it correctly. I know how to inject in my muscle no probs,. IM seemed to get more of a reaction.

[nd1024]

Originally Posted by LifeSize

Why not arimidex for that purpose? I just kind of think that maybe the Nolva wont be as effective come PCT if you've been on it for 3 months..feel me? I don't know shit though.. I was planning to run Adex during cycle, Nolva post..

Arimadex? nolvadex? Both do great jobs at preventing gyno and keeping you dry, some people respond to arimadex better than nolv, and vise versa. I always did well with nolv. Arimadex is also good, and in my opinion, essential to use durring cycles that include compounds that create excess progestorine. Some conflicting studies suggest that running arimadex and nolv together is better, and other studies suggest that it is better to run just arimadex. I respond better to nolv when it comes to staying dry and recovery after cycle. Again, it depends on the individual and how they respond to the various types of ancillaries and AAS.
And as far as running HCG durring cycle is redundant as you are putting synthetic homones in your body, and durring this time, you are not going to respond to HCG while on cycle. You are shut down durring this time. HCG durring cycle, to mimick your LH, is like the mailman standing at the door of a house with a parcel to deliver, and no one is home, yet the mailman stands there all day and night trying to deliver. Mimicking your LH while on AAS is a waste. Your body wont respond to it until you are off cycle. You want to start HCG at the tail end of your cycle, and also use nolv along with as HCG by itself will NOT aid in recovery.
I am copying and pasting something from a well respected forum, its the HCG profile. here it goes.


HCG CYCLES
As regards HCG´s use of Post-Cycle-Therapy (PCT), smaller and more frequent doses after a cycle of AAS would give the best results with the least amount of side effects. A dose of 250iu to 500iu everyday (ed) for 2 to 3 weeks is plenty and should very little from person to person (3). The Physicians Desk Reference recommends 500iu/day, as did the late, great, Dan Duchaine. The smaller doses are sufficient enough to begin reversal of testicular atrophy and used in conjunction with nolvade, will help the already present problem of recovery without raising the levels of estrogen to high and increasing the risk of gynecomastia in the user. Lower doses of 250iu to 500iu also avoid the further risk of down regulating LH receptors in the testes. The old saying more is better definitely does not apply to the use of HCG. You don´t want to finish PCT after using too much HCG only to find out your back at the beginning again. Your best bet is to start at 250iu or 500iu ed for 5 or 6 days, and if you don´t notice anything happening (nuts dropping and getting bigger) up the dose slightly. Small doses like 500iu two days a week isn´t going to cut it like some people think. The only thing small doses of HCG ay be useful (sublingually) for is reducing symptoms of benign prostatic hyperplasia (7). Yeah, that´s right, you can probably reduce some symptoms of an enlarged prostate with the use of small doses of HCG.

As stated above the cycles of HCG should be in the 2 to 3 week range with a least one month off in between, you could stretch your cycle out to four weeks without any major concern if you are using lower doses. One should however take care when using HCG as prolonged use could repress the body´s natural production of gonadotropins permanently, but this is mostly just pure speculation as it does not have yet to be reported nor has there been a case of an overdose. To be on the safe side shorter cycles of HCG seem to be that of the norm. Most users cycle HCG near the end of a steroid cycle, you should start your HCG therapy on the last week of your cycle. For best results you should also run nolva while you run HCG as taking HCG by itself will do little to nothing and gyno even though rare may also flair up. Once the HCG cycle is finished you continue with your usual clomid or nolvadex (preferably the latter) for pct as it is more effective when used in conjunction HCG for pct. With an AAS cycle of 6 to 10 weeks HCG may not be necessary unless extreme doses of AAS were used or there is an existing problem of testicular atrophy or you are running a heavy oral only cycle. AAS cycles of 12 or more weeks should have HCG as a part of post cycle plan.

HCG SIDE EFFECTS
Since HCG is used to stimulate testosterone production, side effects can be the same as those associated with AAS, although gyno may be more common. Possible side effects of HCG use are water and sodium retention after higher doses are used. This is usually a result of higher androgen production. It may cause gyno (again if doses are too high). Any athletes worried about failing urine test because of low levels of epitestosterone may find that using a dose of 500iu of HCG will increase epitestosterone levels. However the problem with HCG is that it is also banned by the IOC and can also be detected in a urine test, the half life of HCG is approximately 4 to 5 days. Another possible downside to HCG is that it to can be suppressive to natural testosterone because it takes the place of LH. Since LH is manufactured in the pituitary because of the response of GnRH (gonadotropin releasing hormone) which in turn is secreted by the hypothalamus. Because the HCG mimics LH and is being supplied exogenously the hypothalamus will be given a signal to still stop producing GnRH, so no natural LH will be produced (5). This is why it should always be used with a compound such as nolvadex. So although HCG is essential after long or heavy cycles, it should not be used without an ancillary such as (specifically) nolv. Also HCG therapy should be discontinued at least 2 weeks prior to stopping the use of nolva, or it may suppress natural testosterone itself (5). This should not be a problem if you are running it towards the end of your cycle of AAS and before pct.

I got this profile from steroid.com
If I am not allowed to post this, please delete it, but thought it would be useful to this thread.

[solo47]

Originally Posted by nd1024

Arimadex? nolvadex? Both do great jobs at preventing gyno and keeping you dry, some people respond to arimadex better than nolv, and vise versa. I always did well with nolv. Arimadex is also good, and in my opinion, essential to use durring cycles that include compounds that create excess progestorine. Some conflicting studies suggest that running arimadex and nolv together is better, and other studies suggest that it is better to run just arimadex. I respond better to nolv when it comes to staying dry and recovery after cycle. Again, it depends on the individual and how they respond to the various types of ancillaries and AAS.
And as far as running HCG durring cycle is redundant as you are putting synthetic homones in your body, and durring this time, you are not going to respond to HCG while on cycle. You are shut down durring this time. HCG durring cycle, to mimick your LH, is like the mailman standing at the door of a house with a parcel to deliver, and no one is home, yet the mailman stands there all day and night trying to deliver. Mimicking your LH while on AAS is a waste. Your body wont respond to it until you are off cycle. You want to start HCG at the tail end of your cycle, and also use nolv along with as HCG by itself will NOT aid in recovery.

Hi ND. Two disagreements: 1. Nolvadex does nothing to keep you dry. It is a SERM, only blocking estrogen from reaching specific areas like the nipples but not blocking estrogen itself. 2. HCG during cycle (no matter how redundant it may be in other ways) still keeps the testicles as plump grapes. Current thinking izzat keeping the grapes plump is easier than letting them turn to raisins and attempting to return them back into grapes in a matter of 10 days or so at the end of a cycle.

Respects,
Solo