help someone out! - MESO-Rx

path2greatness · #1 (**permalink**) 09-29-2007, 02:47 PM

Finally I have internet! So I've began working out with the biggest guy at my gym hes 6'4" and 250 and is much leaner than me. He has the best physique by far that I've ever seen in person. Hes 24 years old. Recently I finally got to have "the talk" with him about his gear usage and what not. It turns out hes been off and on (more often on) for the last 4 years with test and deca and winny and other shit. He says hes been on test for the last 9 months straight. He doesn't know much about pct. I immediately told him that he should come off soon so as not to risk permanent damage. Was I correct in this assesment? If so what kind of pct could he do. He does have access to HGH and I thought he could start that before coming off to help him through his pct. I thought at one point I read a protocol for coming off long term usage written by an experienced guy, swale I think his name was. Was that here? I would really appreciate some advice to help him out. I would hate to see him damage his body or shrink to a large degree because he really is a good guy with a great physique.

prodigy06 · #2 (**permalink**) 09-29-2007, 04:38 PM

Permanent damage? Such as?...

Ironhorse · #3 (**permalink**) 09-29-2007, 08:05 PM

Probably means permanently screwed up HPTA. Most heavy users end up on testosterone replacement therapy because of it, but Im sure your buddy knows this. Or maybe not.

path2greatness · #4 (**permalink**) 09-30-2007, 12:55 AM

It's not to late for him to come off and regain function is it? I would think that some HCG tamox and aromasin or something of the sort would have to have some effect wouldn't it?

path2greatness · #5 (**permalink**) 09-30-2007, 12:58 AM

Am I even asking this Q on the right forum? I'd really like to get some real, educated advice.

unt0ld · #6 (**permalink**) 09-30-2007, 01:41 AM

Ok, I will give you some good educated advice..

everyone is different. No one can give you an exact answer on what has happened or what will happen to your friends natural testosterone production..

He has never gotten blood work done. So he went into shutting his natural production off blindly and he has no reference point of what his natural levels should be.

he can only go off of what are standard test levels for a healthy man of his age.

When coming off of steroids the improper way you can damage your natural production to the point that it will never be the same..

He has no idea ware he is at b/c he has never gotten blood work done.

when he plans on coming off his current cycle tell him to use hcg and tamoxifen citrate and get blood work done a few times..

Theres only so much he can do. I bet he has already permanently damaged his natty production and it will never be at the same levels prior to shutting himself down..

I feel for the guy and I hope it works out for him..
Too many people start using steroids without a clue on how to recover off of them and they end up regretting the usage all together..

The proper PCT regimen for a standard cycle might not be sufficient enough for his needs. There is no proven science to pct and everyone is different, everyone has different genetics.

he might get the best post cycle therapy available but sometimes after abuse it is hard to figure out exactly how much hcg and how much Serms to use to regain test production.

Tell him he might be better off staying on the test for life, if he values his nice body that he worked so hard to get.

good luck to your friend!!

Stormbringer · #7 (**permalink**) 09-30-2007, 02:20 AM

I agree with what Untold said above, but you also have to ask what this guy is trying to accomplish?

It is not uncommon for a serious Competitor to stay on cycle for these lengths of time. He definitly should be supplementing with HCG regardless. Does he compete ?

If he is doing this just recreationally, for vanity's sake, this is wreckless. Let us know.

path2greatness · #8 (**permalink**) 09-30-2007, 03:27 AM

He has competed one time, but I'm not sure if he's serious about doing it with the hopes of going farther in the future. I do think he could be a physique model or some shit and make money of his body in some way. I mean he looks better than a lot of the guys in Muscle and Fitness and hes not even trying to be in the most ripped lean shape at the moment. I might try to get a pic of him to show you what I'm talkin bout but he might think thats wierd, I don't know. I mean I understand it's usually quite hard for guys of his height to go far because of inevitable symmetry issues. So the pros or most really serious competitive bodybuilders use HCG and only come off for a short time or they just use HCG while on to preserve some level of function? How does permanent HPTA shutdown effect your ability to have kids? Can guys produce sperm on permanent test therapy? I appreciate you guys humoring me and not bashing if these questions are stupid.

Stormbringer · #9 (**permalink**) 09-30-2007, 04:07 AM

You better call no Homo first before you start asking him to take photos! LOL. I have had several creepy guys approach me and claim to be former BB judges or some shit and want to do a photo shoot! Whole nother story though!
Anyway, I think that what you are asking is not predictable. I have mutiple friends that literally went on juice for 5 - 10 years non stop during there early twenties in their pursiut of a Pro Card and several made it. PCT was as basic as Tamoxifen and clomid for several weeks. That was it. Almost all of them have normal blood work now and the body took care of it self. One is on TRT and will probably be on it for ever. After 6 years of being off the sauce, the Doc told him his Test levels were that of a small girl!

I will say when they cycle now it is done with the new info that has come out re HPTA functioning and PCT that is recommended now and was not so well known lets say 15 years ago. You never know if your are going to be that one. Plus there are many other benfits to using these methods for your body also, so they should definitely not be ignored.

Yes he should be using some HCG while on and he definitely needs to plan PCT for when he is ready to stop. Easiest way is to do this is after a Competiton when his entire body is so down regulated he probably will not even notice coming off the AAS as much as he will notice what it is like having Carbs everyday again! He needs to give it a break anyway long enough to get some bloodwork done for a baseline.

path2greatness · #10 (**permalink**) 09-30-2007, 07:16 AM

So I am mid cycle and was planning to use HCG at 500ius a day for 10 days after my last shot of test prop. I will also start nolvadex at 40 mg for those 10 days and then on to 20mg for the next 3 1/2 weeks. Also I have a little bit of clomid which I will use starting the last day of my HCG shots at 150 mg for the first day and then 100 mg for the next and then 50mg and till I have none left which I think will last me two weeks. I was also thinking of throwing in aromasin in there as well as I've heard it's great for pct. How much aromasin should I take and how should I fit it in there? Is this what he should do as well or should his pct be different because hes been on so much longer?