hGH Cycling; to whom it may comcern

[einstein1905]

Originally Posted by john_phillips

SO should insulin and gh be shot at the same time or is there a period of time (minimal or optimal) that you should space gh and slin shots? Like gh, then an hour later, insulin or whatever.

JaPe

It's been shown that peak plasma levels of exogenous GH occur about an hor or so after injection (subQ), so if you shoot Humalog IM (or even subQ) at the same time as the GH, the peak plasma/peak activities should match up well

[einstein1905]

Originally Posted by crzyhrse

Is there a reason to go IM instead of subq? I always thought subq was the way it is supposed to be done.....?? It just caught me eye......

CH

SubQ injects with slin are only done for convenience. An IM inject will lead to a quicker onset of activity, and post w/o, that's what we want.

[crzyhrse]

Originally Posted by einstein1905

SubQ injects with slin are only done for convenience. An IM inject will lead to a quicker onset of activity, and post w/o, that's what we want.

Where do you recommend injecting? Quads? Standard 1/2" slin pin?

[Tank01]

I personaly dont think that IM injections of insulin are very safe... Humalog already sets in way fast... and if you inject it IM it will set in even faster... I dont think you could consume enough carbs to prevent you from going into shock because the insulin would take its effect before there would be any carbs digested and ready for use... I dont think that sub q shots are for convienece... I think they are for your saftey... I dont see what the problem is with taking Humulin R in the AM along with GH and then just eating clean (GOod carbs, high protien, low or no fat) for the next 4-6 hours....


All of what I said about the Humalog and Humulin R is just what makese sense to me... Hell... for all I know I could be way off... please let me know.

Thanks

[einstein1905]

I only do IM insulin injections now. You don't need more carbs than with subQ, you simply need to ingest them sooner....it's no big deal. There's no good reason to use a slower acting insulin and shoot subQ. The primary reason you're using insulin post w/o is to replenish the two major constituents for muscular anabolism: amino acids and glucose. A slower acting insulin shot subQ just prolongs the period of nutrient deprivation post w/o, which is the exact opposite reason we're using insulin at that time....our goal is to rapidly replenish nutrients to facilitate anabolism. A longer acting insulin also prolongs the periods during which you'll need to avoid fats....of all kinds. Everyone should be taking in sufficient omega 3,6, and 9 fatty acids, but you don't want to do so while insulin is active. Using R 2x/day puts unnecessary restrictions on your dietary intake and does a less efficient job of post w/o replenishment of nutrients than does Humalog.

As for the IM versus subQ, insulin wasn't "designed" to be shot either way. SubQ is less painful and less invasive, so it's the preferred method. Many type I diabetics shoot humalog IM, because it gives them better control of BG as far as timing goes.

[bodyofwork26]

Good post bro, that will help me out alot . I've been wanting to start slin and gh to get me to the next level.

[Tank01]

when you say you need glucose sooner do you mean like... you should ingest the carbs and protien and then shoot the Humalog right after or what?

how soon is soooner?


Does anyone have a chart of the rate of digestion of Dexatrose?... like say if I took 80g of it post workout (plus protien)... how long before my blood glucose levels top out... Im trying to figure out how long after I drink somthing like this I would have to Shoot Humalog IM... oh, and If subq injections of humalog are slower than IM... yet humalog is already really fast acting then how much faster... or how long does it take the Humalog to take effect if shot IM?... I think these are questions that we would all like to know... at least to prevent any deaths or brain damage. Thanks guru's

[einstein1905]

You don't want to take in the dextrose first, since this will cause an endogenous insulin spike. This in addition to the insulin you'll be injecting will require additional carbs. Dextrose, which is pure glucose, isn't subject to digestion....that's why it's perfect. It's already a 6 carbon sugar, and your BG peak will be directly based on the quantity of active insulin at the time of ingestion (as well as the amount of glucose ingested). I shoot my insulin I imediately after w/o and take in my dextrose/creatine within 5 min or so....never have i had any problems with this scheduling. I haven't tested my BG at every time point after injecting, but my BG is up to around 140 10 min after taking in the dextrose and down below 100 within 30 min after injection. I usually dip down to below 70 by the time I get to my meal (1-1.5hrs after my shake). Your BG isn't the only thing that's important. Using insulin with a bolus dose of glucose like we use, we engorge our tissues with glucose, which provides a subsequent tolerance of lower BG levels, due to most tissues having just been "satiated", at least for a period of time. Also, taking in a whey shake, which provides an overabundance of amino acids, also provides amino acid substrate for mitochondria, which further decreases the need for "normal" BG levels to function.

Tomorrow after my workout, I'll do as i normally do, but I'll take my BG maybe every 5 min or so (If that's possible) and I'll plot it out vs time. I'll note my carb intake and timing too.

Originally Posted by Tank01

when you say you need glucose sooner do you mean like... you should ingest the carbs and protien and then shoot the Humalog right after or what?

how soon is soooner?


Does anyone have a chart of the rate of digestion of Dexatrose?... like say if I took 80g of it post workout (plus protien)... how long before my blood glucose levels top out... Im trying to figure out how long after I drink somthing like this I would have to Shoot Humalog IM... oh, and If subq injections of humalog are slower than IM... yet humalog is already really fast acting then how much faster... or how long does it take the Humalog to take effect if shot IM?... I think these are questions that we would all like to know... at least to prevent any deaths or brain damage. Thanks guru's

[Tank01]

"Your BG isn't the only thing that's important. Using insulin with a bolus dose of glucose like we use, we engorge our tissues with glucose, which provides a subsequent tolerance of lower BG levels, due to most tissues having just been "satiated", at least for a period of time. Also, taking in a whey shake, which provides an overabundance of amino acids, also provides amino acid substrate for mitochondria, which further decreases the need for "normal" BG levels to function."

...now I know that protien is also very important to consume post workout... is that what you were trying to say with the statement above?... or are you stating that because our muscles will be stuffed with glucose and amino acids we will be able to tolerate lower blood glucose levels?

At any rate, I do apreciate your answering my questions...

If you could describe in detail *(with time markers ect)* your post workout eating and insulin use it would help me out a lot... stuff like how much protien, carbs, and IU's humalog immediatley post workout.. and then what sort of meal you eat 1-1.5 hours later... im sorry but im curious :-P

also, If im planning on doing a long term GH cycle *(1 year) how many times per day will I have to use humalog to counter my becoming diabetic in the long term? I know with humulin R it was once a day..... but what is it for humalog. thanks

[einstein1905]

Originally Posted by Tank01

"Your BG isn't the only thing that's important. Using insulin with a bolus dose of glucose like we use, we engorge our tissues with glucose, which provides a subsequent tolerance of lower BG levels, due to most tissues having just been "satiated", at least for a period of time. Also, taking in a whey shake, which provides an overabundance of amino acids, also provides amino acid substrate for mitochondria, which further decreases the need for "normal" BG levels to function."

...now I know that protien is also very important to consume post workout... is that what you were trying to say with the statement above?... or are you stating that because our muscles will be stuffed with glucose and amino acids we will be able to tolerate lower blood glucose levels?

At any rate, I do apreciate your answering my questions...

If you could describe in detail *(with time markers ect)* your post workout eating and insulin use it would help me out a lot... stuff like how much protien, carbs, and IU's humalog immediatley post workout.. and then what sort of meal you eat 1-1.5 hours later... im sorry but im curious :-P

also, If im planning on doing a long term GH cycle *(1 year) how many times per day will I have to use humalog to counter my becoming diabetic in the long term? I know with humulin R it was once a day..... but what is it for humalog. thanks

Consuming protein post w/o (quickly digestable types such as whey) allows for the shuttling in of amino acids into muscle. However, we're takin gin a vast overabundance of protein, so much of the amino acids will be used as "fuel" by mitochondria in muscle and other tissue types. The brain is the only tissue that "needs" glucose, so if other tissue types are being satisfied via amino acid metabolism, there are less tissues at that time requiring glucose from the blood, so a lower BG can be tolerated.

Supraphysiological GH over time leads to some degree of insulin resistance (type II diabetes-like). Using insulin doesn't counteract this, but actually makes it worse. I think because insulin resistance is symptomized by hyperglycemia, people think since insulin lowers BG that it is counteracting GH's progression towards causing insulin resistance.....not the case.