Steroid Forum: This is a discussion on I have done my homework & ready within the Anabolic Steroids forums, part of the extensive steroid information at MESO-Rx; HI guys,
Maybe someone of you saw my name here or there before asking for help with a cycle that ...
Maybe someone of you saw my name here or there before asking for help with a cycle that I was planning. When I first asked I was advised to make some more research and take more time to read the stickies listed here by Phreezer & Bob smith, and I did my home work. I was Also not ready with the gear that I needed for the cycle but now I am, or at least most of it (and this is what I mainly need help with).
Once again, I am 30 years old, 6 2 tall, with a low body fat (not exactly sure of the %)!! A friend of mine was in a vacation overseas and I asked him to get me a couple of things and he got me the following:
nolvadex ( 90 tablets * 10 mg each)
clomid ( 50 tablet * 50 mg each)
cidoviron (same substance as proviron, but a different name) ( 40 tablet * 25 mg each)
proviron ( 20 tablets * 25 mg each)
sustanon 250 mg ( 30 ampules * 1 ml each )
danabol ds ( 500 tablets * 10 mg each) made in Thailand, small baby blue heart looking pills
I wanted him to get me more stuff but he was not comfortable carrying more than this with him especially the deca because it came in small dosage ampules ( 50mgs each) and to get me all what I wanted he would have carried over 100 ampules total and he was not welling to do that so I did not push it and as we say, half blind is better than fully blind!! So … I am trying to get deca from here.
So as you guys see that I can go with the sustanon, dbol cycle OR if I succeeded in getting the deca from here I will go with sustanon, deca & dbol and this is how I am planning to run it:
Sustanon 500mg EW / weeks 1-->12
Deca 400-500 EW / weeks 1--> 12
Dbol 30 – 40 ED / weeks 1--> 4
I know I know I know … I did not say anything about the PCT yet, and this is mainly what I need help with. Reading the stickies was very very very helpful and very straight in regards to the cycles itself, but to be honest and I am not sure about the other newbies out there!! I was a little confused by the different opinions about the PCT and this is why I am here again seeking help from you guys and hopefully I will not get flamed for it
Questions:
1. Should I go with buying deca and adding it to the cycle? Would the advantages from adding deca be more than the disadvantages of adding it? Especially that I also learned that with something like Dbol at the beginning of the cycle (a kick start) I will need an injectable or two to keep as much gains as possible out of the Dbol and to harden the gains especially with all the water retention that is always associated with Dbol.
I personally want to go with the deca. So I mainly want to know if I added deca or I did not, what would be the case & what should change in the PCT in both cases?
2. in case I added deca, should I stop it earlier than the 12th. Weeks? As far as I understood, the deca remains in the system for much longer than the sustanon! Should I stop the deca injections like by the 10th. Or 11th. Week of the cycle??
3. would the gear that I have for the PCT( Nolvadex, Proviron, cidoviron, Clomid) in the above mentioned dosages be enough or I will need more of it or even extra stuff!! And in both cases, how would I run it and when to start it and when to end? I really need a lot of help with this part here.
4. I also heard about taking lots of vitamin E to keep the stretch marks especially that I have tendency to getting them, I just would like to know how much would I need per day?
5. I am planning to go get my liver functions tested before/during & after the cycle coz I am a little considered about the Dbol, but I also heard about a couple of things that I can take during the cycle to help my liver work. Any suggestions? And are they stuff that I can get over the counter?
6. Diet, as I was told once by Maxrep (On a more positive note, you have decent size for someone who's been training naturally. Which means your diet and training are probably being done reasonably correct.
A good foundation is extremely important, which you appear to have. You'll notice the gains from a good cycle will be substantial. Just keep in mind, your diet will primarily determine the gains, it's just they will come much faster when on a cycle.) what do u guys recommend in regards to dieting and supplements during the cycle, right now I eat like a bull and work my ass hard in the gym ( 3 – 4 days/week and work every muscle once to the fulliest and then give it time to recover ) and all what I take is lots of Arginine, lysine, Protein shack twice a day and a stack of 17-bol and M1-bol (whatever they have in this shit, it works!! It gives me a good bump at the gym and it raises my weights almost every other workout but two things I do not like about it, I think it is the reason behind my heart racing sometimes and not being able to sleep!! Which is one of the symptoms of the Dbol!!??? But as I said, whatever is inside the 17-bol and M1-bol works for me. So the question is mainly about the diet and supplements, how much Cal. I should be taking ED and do I keep taking the same supplements or not or do I need to add something else?
7. I will be injecting myself, but what I need to know is if it better to inject the sustanon (which as you know consists of four kinds of testosterone, 2 mid. Life and 1 long life and 1 short life) would it be better to inject it twice a week or once a week? My understanding is to inject it twice a week better than once! And would it be better to take the Dbol on 3 or 4 times a day? Before or sfter the workout on the gym days? As it also have a short half life as I understood!
8. One last thing, and it is about my wife and her concern that I do understand but let me just ask. How bad would a cycle like this affect me? And I am not just talking about sex but also about the quality/quantity of sperms and accordingly a baby that we might have??
I would like to thank all of you in advance for the help and for taking the time to at least reading this mini book that I wrote LOL, but I do not know where to get help from if I did not get it here!! And that is why I am here seeking help and advice from the people who have been there and done that before me. At one point we were all new to this field and we needed help
1. Should I go with buying deca and adding it to the cycle? Would the advantages from adding deca be more than the disadvantages of adding it? Especially that I also learned that with something like Dbol at the beginning of the cycle (a kick start) I will need an injectable or two to keep as much gains as possible out of the Dbol and to harden the gains especially with all the water retention that is always associated with Dbol.
I personally want to go with the deca. So I mainly want to know if I added deca or I did not, what would be the case & what should change in the PCT in both case?
Deca and Dbol together can make for some serious bloat based on my own experience. So, my opinion is to never go over 50mg ED of Dbol and 400mg EW of Deca.
2. in case I added deca, should I stop it earlier than the 12th. Weeks? As far as I understood, the deca remains in the system for much longer than the sustanon! Should I stop the deca injections like by the 10th. Or 11th. Week of the cycle??
even though sustanon and deca are both long acting, I would still drop deca a week before your last shot of sus. The progesterone scares me.
3. would the gear that I have for the PCT( Nolvadex, Proviron, cidoviron, Clomid) in the above mentioned dosages be enough or I will need more of it or even extra stuff!! And in both cases, how would I run it and when to start it and when to end? I really need a lot of help with this part here.
Don't use proviron in your pct. It does not belong there since it too is an AAS.
As you know, I favor nolva over clomid by a large margin for pct. This is my personal opinion. They both work, but I think nolva is way better.
For your PCT you probably need to wait at least two weeks after your last injection before you start, maybe three.
From there I would run your nolva like this: 20-20-20-20-20-10-5-2.5-0.
This should only come out to be 822.5mg used. That will leave you another 77 or so for cushion if you need it during cycle or if you need to run your pct a bit longer.
Though I've never done it, I would think clomid would help fight gyno during a cycle somewhat like nolva does. Although, I would wait to hear from someone who has tried that before I put my faith in it. If nothing else, you could do like solo and some of the other guys and run it for the first four weeks of you pct at 100mg's ed. Maybe get some of that "synergy" going on you hear about. I definitely think you need to come up with at least 10000iu's of HCG to help with testicular atrophy, which you will have. You would either want to run this periodically through the cycle or run it for a couple weeks leading into PCT. The dosage, of course, will depend on how you decide to employ it.
4. I also heard about taking lots of vitamin E to keep the stretch marks especially that I have tendency to getting them, I just would like to know how much would I need per day?
It won't prevent it, but I think it helps. It can't hurt. I run 1000iu ed. or one gel cap each morning...
5. I am planning to go get my liver functions tested before/during & after the cycle coz I am a little considered about the Dbol, but I also heard about a couple of things that I can take during the cycle to help my liver work. Any suggestions? And are they stuff that I can get over the counter?
I've never had problems with liver function at the doses you are going to run. So, I don't think its necessary unless you have liver problems already. In which case you shouldn't use it at all. Just don't drink or anything else while on it and there will be no problems.
Milk thistle is cheap and supposedly a good liver tonic...
6. Diet, as I was told once by Maxrep (On a more positive note, you have decent size for someone who's been training naturally. Which means your diet and training are probably being done reasonably correct.
A good foundation is extremely important, which you appear to have. You'll notice the gains from a good cycle will be substantial. Just keep in mind, your diet will primarily determine the gains, it's just they will come much faster when on a cycle.) what do u guys recommend in regards to dieting and supplements during the cycle, right now I eat like a bull and work my ass hard in the gym ( 3 – 4 days/week and work every muscle once to the fulliest and then give it time to recover ) and all what I take is lots of Arginine, lysine, Protein shack twice a day and a stack of 17-bol and M1-bol (whatever they have in this shit, it works!! It gives me a good bump at the gym and it raises my weights almost every other workout but two things I do not like about it, I think it is the reason behind my heart racing sometimes and not being able to sleep!! Which is one of the symptoms of the Dbol!!??? But as I said, whatever is inside the 17-bol and M1-bol works for me. So the question is mainly about the diet and supplements, how much Cal. I should be taking ED and do I keep taking the same supplements or not or do I need to add something else?
There is a lot of stimulants in that drink shit. Makes me feel like my heart is going to blow so I don't take it. If MaxRep says your diet is clean, then it is very clean by the standards of most everyone else.
Dbol has never kept me up at night but I don't take any substantial doses late either.
Just eat eat eat and grow grow grow.
7. I will be injecting myself, but what I need to know is if it better to inject the sustanon (which as you know consists of four kinds of testosterone, 2 mid. Life and 1 long life and 1 short life) would it be better to inject it twice a week or once a week? My understanding is to inject it twice a week better than once! And would it be better to take the Dbol on 3 or 4 times a day? Before or sfter the workout on the gym days? As it also have a short half life as I understood!
To get the best out of the short acting esters you would have to take it twice each week.
When I run my Dbol at 40mg ED I take 10mg in the morning 20mg an hour before I work out and another 10mg at dinner. Maybe not the best way but I like the strength kick at the gym, and I lift in the late afternoon anyway...
8. One last thing, and it is about my wife and her concern that I do understand but let me just ask. How bad would a cycle like this affect me? And I am not just talking about sex but also about the quality/quantity of sperms and accordingly a baby that we might have??
Your sperm count will progressively drop as the AAS continues to suppress your HPTA. Basically where sperm count is the concern, you can take HCG during to keep them on life support. Or you can take it at the end to restart the system. Either way a proper PCT will get you back in shape no problem. But to make everything stick, you gotta depend on the SERMs / nolva.
Oh and you'll be a horny mofo when on the sus and dbol!
hey bro..check your other post on the other board you posted....it will answer some of your questions....too many questions to anser all at once....re post the ones we did not answer...
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The Big Hungarian
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All advice is for informational/educational purposes only. It is not a substitute for a qualified legal counselor and in no way constitutes an attorney/client privilege
Thanks a lot Van-Man & BigKarch , I think you both pretty much covered all the questions I had. I will keep you guys informed on how I am doing with the cycle when I start it. I do not have any HCG and hopefully I will get my hands on some soon as I am not planning to start anything before having everything I need for the cycle and the PCT, but when I do get HCG how would I be taking it and when to start it and when to end it?
Once again, thank you both for all your help and I would appreciate any feedback from anyone else also.
It is generally estrogen or progesterone related. Depending on which one is the primary cause will determine the course of action. Test will give you E and deca will give you P.
Or you could opt for a moderate dose of anti-E like arimidex during cycle and something like proviron to help with the progesterone. I don't know if it actually does, but it seems like I've read here and there that proviron and winstrol can help keep progesterone in check due to the similarity they have to DHT.
I should've said anti aromatase with regard to my comment about arimidex... but if your estrogen is high you need to address that specifically. anti estrogens like nolvadex will block much of the action of these estrogens and anti aromatase drugs like arimidex will reduce their formation. But if the cause lies elsewhere then the levels will return once the drug administration is ended.
how can you address high total estrogens when ur Estradiol and Estrone are ideal? Have all the feelings of high estrogen (slight gyne, feel bloated most of the time). Total T and Free T are in mid range...lh/fsh normal. never did AAS but took finasteride for 8 years which may have caused the high Es and mid T. libido sucks and erections are somewhat weak.
I have done my homework & ready 
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